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CG Approved Anchor Light vs LED Lantern

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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
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Initially Posted - 05/14/2012 : 19:23:40

Whenever we talk about nav lights it almost inevitably comes up that someone uses an LED lantern or such as an anchor light. Someone also usually mentions that using LED bulbs that are not CG approved is illegal.

The other night I started thinking about the above and wondered if the LED lantern setup is legal as an anchor light (seems like the mast would block some part of the required 360 degree light pattern). That got me wondering what the legal ramifications would be if someone in another boat (most likely power) were to hit you while you were at anchor and you were using an LED lantern as an anchor light? Especially if somone were hurt or worse.

Any thoughts?

Association Member

GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

Edited by - on

redeye
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Response Posted - 05/15/2012 : 05:56:48

I don't think anything is legal without a GC certificate.. but then once when I did not have anything up the local fuz gave me a glow stick to run up the mast so I reckon anything is better than nothing, being a realist. Mine would sometimes not come on.
I have noticed the new LEDs can be Bright, and as it seems every day I go to the store, they have a new and improved product, you never know... the current selling leds may actually be 2 NM, but I doubt it.

The other issue that I never hear discussed, which is often a reality, is the anchor light is required if you are anchored in a navigational waterway, which is often not the case if you are anchored up in a cove.

Where I sail you could easily use a mirror ball and they would still run you over so I'm not thinking the legal issue is of consequence, but common sense rules the day. I've got a circle of LEDs at the top that do not have a CG OkeeDokee but with the 12 gauge wire to the deck and a new harness it is the brightest anchor light on the lake. I goot get a shot of it.. Do what you can and get those anchor lights working properly asap, and in the meantime do your best to be prepared.

Edited by - redeye on 05/15/2012 08:05:32

dlucier
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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
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Response Posted - 05/15/2012 : 06:04:52

Regarding the legality of LED lights, there is nothing in COLREGS defining the light source (LED, incandescent, candle, oil lamp, halogen, fiber optic,...etc), only that it be visible at 2 miles (vessels less than 12 meters). To see if the light meets this requirement, at night, leave it on land, hang it from a tree/another boat in the marina...etc, then sail out two miles and determine if you can see it. If you can, it meets the requirement.

Edited by - on

redeye
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Response Posted - 05/15/2012 : 06:17:22

Hey.. I gotta get a picture of that!

( my anchor light from 2 nm )

Now where did I put that disco ball...

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 05/15/2012 : 09:03:08

The type of light source isn't the legal issue, nor is your personal assessment that you can see it from two miles. Legally, the visibility must be certified. If the USCG boards your boat, or if you end up in court because of an accident, the only measure that will count is USCG certification. Anything else and you're open to judgments or fines.

The USCG only certifies complete light assemblies--if you put an LED replacement bulb in a nav light that came with an incandescent, the light is no longer USCG-certified.

All that said, "Anything is better than nothing." You're not required to show an anchor light in a "designated anchorage" (as indicated on the chart), but if you're on the boat, it might be wise. Not everyone (or hardly anyone) looks at the chart.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 05/15/2012 09:03:50

redeye
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Response Posted - 05/15/2012 : 09:37:27

..once again, as in the past... when I get on my knees at night and say my prayers.. they include..

"and Lord.. Please don't let me end up in Court."

( and my prayer onboard just before I go to sleep is always.. Please don't let me get run over! )

Well anyhoo.. that is an interesting problem.. Coast Guard Approved Vs Shine for 2 NM. At least to me it is interesting cause I have worked with Light all my life. ( Ophthalmic Photographer ). It would seem to me, as it always has in medical applications, that the specs would/should be a given measure of light a set distance. ( ie 14 ft candles at 1 foot )

To be seen at 2 miles seems so immeasurable, arbitrary. inaccurate..

Of course Coast Guard Approved is not arbitrary..

and in a topic of such specific needs..

I think I will measure some light output as I have the instruments to do so..

Edited by - redeye on 05/15/2012 09:53:30

redeye
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Response Posted - 05/15/2012 : 10:12:57

§ 25.10–3 Navigation light certification
requirements.
(a) Except as provided by paragraph
(b) of this section, each navigation
light must—
(1) Meet the technical standards of
the applicable Navigation Rules;
(2) Be certified by a laboratory listed
by the Coast Guard to the standards of
ABYC A-16 (incorporated by reference,
see § 25.01–3), or equivalent, although
portable battery-powered lights need
only meet the requirements of the
standard applicable to them; and
(3) Bear a permanent and indelible
label stating the following:
(i) ‘‘USCG Approval 33 CFR 183.810’’
(ii) ‘‘MEETS ll.’’ (Insert the identification
name or number of the standard
under paragraph (a)(2) of this section,
to which the light was type-tested.)
(iii) ‘‘TESTED BY ll.’’ (Insert the
name or registered certification-mark
of the laboratory listed by the Coast
Guard that tested the fixture to the
standard under paragraph (a)(2) of this
section.)
(iv) Name of Manufacturer.
(v) Number of Model.
(vi) Visibility of the light in nautical
miles (nm).
(vii) Date on which the light was
type-tested.
(viii) Identification of bulb used in
the compliance test.
(b) If a light is too small to attach
the required label—
(1) Place the information from the
label in or on the package that contains
the light; and
(2) Mark each light ‘‘USCG’’ followed
by the certified range of visibility in
nautical miles, for example, ‘‘USCG
2nm.’’ Once installed, this mark must
be visible without removing the light.

... Good Grief Charlie Brown... I can't remember seeing this mark an any light I've ever installed...

Edited by - on

JohnP
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Response Posted - 05/15/2012 : 10:13:55

I can't imagine that the USCG, or the USN police, or the Maryland Department of Natural Resources, or the local police, each of which has patrol boats on the Chesapeake, would question a properly functioning anchor light.

I've never seen any law enforcement boats out at night, except last July 4th when a guy drowned after falling out of his skiff at dusk.

I bet law enforcement is busy with other tasks! I've read about DNR police staking out some Bay waterways to catch oyster thieves!

As far as my home-made anchor light goes, I am enjoying the 68-LED bulb. It's as bright as any light in the anchorage and just cost $10. I'll tell you later if it lasts longer than 3 years, like the old 32-LED bulb.

Edited by - on

redeye
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Response Posted - 05/15/2012 : 10:16:04

http://www.perko.com/faq/

Oh.. I gotta put on my glasses to see the A-16 markings

Edited by - redeye on 05/15/2012 10:16:48

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
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Response Posted - 05/15/2012 : 10:19:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 The type of light source isn't the legal issue, nor is your personal assessment that you can see it from two miles. Legally, the visibility must be certified.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yes and no.

The USCG requires recreational vessel manufacturers, distributors, and dealers installing navigation lights in new recreational vessels to meet the requirements for certification and markings. Aftermarket light fixture installations (those done by owners) and manufacturers of aftermarket only fixtures do not require certification.

Edited by - on

redeye
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Response Posted - 05/15/2012 : 10:28:01

Yepper.. I'm with you John.. but I'm talkin about what it takes to follow the letter of the law to keep the Lawyers from Feasting should their be an incident.

I think the companies are not up to speed with getting their products UL listed and documented.. at our risk. And heck their product changes weekly with LED technology changing in our global market..

I'd imagine in our current economic environment they are just trying to stay alive.. I'd call that the WallMart syndrome..

The Perko FAQ was very helpful.. and I imagine Dave has spent some time reading on down the rabbit hole..

Edited by - redeye on 05/15/2012 11:03:15

redeye
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Response Posted - 05/15/2012 : 10:29:31

Very interesting Don... That really adds some light to my understanding.

Edited by - on

NautiC25
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USA
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Response Posted - 05/15/2012 : 10:31:56

Arg, this topic just reminded me that I want to change out the single LED 360 I bought for the anchor light. It works ok, but isn't bright enough for me. I'm not sure if it shines the required 2nm.

Thinking about changing to something like this:

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2012 : 10:54:04

Hey JohnP, was there a thread on that light?

Edited by - on

Davy J
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USA
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Response Posted - 05/15/2012 : 11:08:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Arg, this topic just reminded me that I want to change out the single LED 360 I bought for the anchor light. It works ok, but isn't bright enough for me.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I guess this topic is bad as an anchor discussion or tow truck thread.

I just changed my old LED anchor light to the one that NautiC25 has and last week when we anchored out for the supermoon, I looked at the boats in the anchorage and noted that my anchor light seemed brighter than any of the others.....

Edited by - on

NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
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Response Posted - 05/15/2012 : 11:25:21

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Davy J
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Arg, this topic just reminded me that I want to change out the single LED 360 I bought for the anchor light. It works ok, but isn't bright enough for me.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I guess this topic is bad as an anchor discussion or tow truck thread.

I just changed my old LED anchor light to the one that NautiC25 has and last week when we anchored out for the supermoon, I looked at the boats in the anchorage and noted that my anchor light seemed brighter than any of the others.....

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
You have the Dr. LED one and it was bright?

Hmmm, maybe my old mast wiring is causing power loss.

Edited by - NautiC25 on 05/15/2012 11:26:09

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 05/15/2012 : 11:29:12

<< brighter than any of the others >>

Mine are brighter than most of the CG approved lights out there with 20 year old wiring going to them.

Anyhoo..... GaryB.. any thoughts?

Edited by - redeye on 05/15/2012 11:42:18

Davy J
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Response Posted - 05/15/2012 : 11:52:19

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">You have the Dr. LED one and it was bright?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Yes, it's the very one you pictured. The only other thing that may have produced a brighter light output is they fact that I have an 80 watt solar panel on the boat and the voltage of the batteries stays a little higher than when I do not have the solar panel on. I am not sure if that could/would make any difference though.

Edited by - on

redeye
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Response Posted - 05/15/2012 : 12:06:06

<< voltage of the batteries stays a little higher >>

I was under the same impression.. after I added the solar panel ( only 6 watts ) it kept the battery up to 13.5 volts and the new led light seemed really bright. I've been wanting to get a shot of it.

Edited by - redeye on 05/15/2012 12:06:36

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2012 : 12:28:10

I have the older style Dr. LED for my anchor light (lots of LEDs instead of the single central one). I thought it had either gone bad or become dislodged and was trying to figure out how I was going to talk Rita into going up the mast to work on it. This weekend our marina had one of our twice yearly work parties and they bring in the USCG Auxiliary for free boat inspections. The inspector wanted to see my anchor light, and I figured I was just going to fail that part of the inspection, but I learned a trick from him. Walk quite a ways down the pier, then give the high sign to the person on the switch and watch carefully and you can see the light come on. Bear in mind this was pretty much at noon in bright sun, it'd be a lot easier in the evening / early morning, but we're rarely on the boat at those times.

I do know that it's the brightest light in the anchorage when it's lit at night. I wonder if the Imtra LEDs are any brighter or dimmer compared to the Dr. LED bulbs?

Edited by - on

islander
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Response Posted - 05/15/2012 : 12:56:12

To get back to the original question, I have one of these that you can run up the mast and uses very little power. Very handy for lighting up the cockpit too. Made by Davis WM has it. When I had the powerboat and would be in an anchorage I would hang this light from the Bimini on the flybridge. It would light up the entire boat. Nobody was going to run into me unless they were blind.

Utility Mega Light#153;
Suspends easily from boom, awning or grabrail. Includes a dual-function fresnel lens, automatic switching on at dusk and off at dawn, and two bayonet-style lamps: a high-efficiency 0.110A lamp that#146;s visible 2nm and a 0.320A bright light. Includes a heavy-duty 15' cord, 12V lighter plug and adjustable hanging bracket.

Mega Light#153; Masthead Light
Mounted on its specially designed stainless-steel masthead bracket, this ultra-efficient light marks your boat at anchor or on a mooring. Includes two bayonet-style lamps: a high-efficiency 0.110A lamp and a 0.320A bright light. Automatically switches on at dusk and off at dawn. Dual-function Fresnel lens projects light for up to 2 nautical miles. Comes with a 12" lead wire. ON/OFF switch

Edited by - islander on 05/15/2012 13:05:13

redviking
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Response Posted - 05/15/2012 : 18:33:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
I guess this topic is bad as an anchor discussion or tow truck thread.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

And what exactly is bad sbout the anchor thread?

Maybe these guys should be invited to join the next time the anchor thread comes around.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIidW_8O_cs&feature=player_embedded

sten

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2012 : 19:58:34

After bucking the LED trend, I caved and got an anchor light from these guys. I really like it:

http://www.bebi-electronics.com/specs.html#color

Install is in the blog here: http://littleboatiris.blogspot.ca/2011/04/you-light-up-my-life.html

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 05/16/2012 : 07:40:40

SO... Ya gotta get one of those stickers and put it on your LED lantern.... Either that or run a lawyer up the halyard.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
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Response Posted - 05/16/2012 : 21:43:18

My original point was, the LED lanterns are not 360 degree light sources as required for anchor lights since the mast blocks part of the light. They are also not CG approved.

My other concern is if you are using aftermarket LED's and someone were to hit you. Seems like you would be totally open to lawsuits since technically the lights are not CG approved. I've been thinking about going to Dr LED LED nav lights but I'm concerned if I were involved in an accident.

Dr LED's website has a press release that states there Polar Star 40 series LED lights are CG approved -->> http://www.doctorled.com/Dr_LED_PRESS_RELEASE_0612.pdf. It also insinuates the Polar Star 25's are too. What does this mean? If the LED is CG approved does that mean your CG approved fixture would still be compliant?

How can DR LED sell lights that fit in a CG approved fixture if the fixture is no longer CG approved unless you use the manufacturer's recommended bulb. It also seems like WM, Defender, etc... would be open to lawsuits if you purchased a LED light from them that voided the CG certification of the fixture originally installed on your boat.

I also wonder why Aqua Signal sells a CG approved LED fixture in the 40 series lights but not the 25 series?

I've seen the local sheriff and the CG out at night on the bay numerous times.

Has anyone ever heard of the sheriff or CG actually opening up a fixture to check and see if the bulbs/LED's are CG approved?

I really want to go to LED's but don't want to be opened up to lawsuits.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
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Response Posted - 05/17/2012 : 04:17:06

Gary,

I have enjoyed this thread. It has both the regulations, concern for safety, alternate options at less cost and has a good bit of humour mixed in as well. I love it !!

Getting back to your question...I think most would agree with your points. I offer the following:

I went with a USCG approved LED fixture. It also has a photo-diode that turns it off automaticaly when the sun comes up. It cost a bunch. It has 360 degree visibility, 2NM and has a mass of electronics contained in that fixture...in fact at first glance, I thought they left out the LED until I noticed it was this little thing in the center. But that one LED is very bright !

This all comes down to what is also common to other discussions such as with type of PFDs, etc.....what you feel is best/most comfortable for you in regards to making your own decision regarding:
1) 360 degrees vs perhaps something less by running a light up the mast for the times when anchoring.
2) Replacing incandescent/halogen bulb with an LED bulb that is super-bright but does not have a USCG approval since it is only a bulb replacement.
3) Going with whatever options there are but not USCG approved.
4) USCG approved LED fixture.

Some of us go by the book for everything because that is how we are made up - We want to be in compliance or feel that by being in compliance is the best assurance for being safe...well, as safe as one can be by the regs. Some of us make our own decisions regarding what appears to be equal and/or maybe even superior to the regs but not in accord with the regs for one reason or another which the individual has used his thinking cap and made his own decision/rationale for going the route he did. Some of us go by the book for some safety issues and not for others based on again our own personal decisions.

While, I went the USCG LED fixture route for the anchor light for just the reasons you expressed, I did buy one of those multi-LEDs replacement bulbs for my stern light and will eventually utilize it...when I get around to it or the present incandescent bulb burns out. So...I guess I fall into the category of going by the book for some safety issues and made my own decisions regarding others. I wear a self-inflating PFD but always have addl regular USCG approved PFDs in the cockpit equal to the number sailing with me and one also for any that wear a self-inflating PFD since there are times when I or others may take off the self-inflating one and the regs indicate if you take a self-inflating PFD off, then you have to have a regular PFD accessible or you are not in compliance. Accessibility is not clearly defined but I almost always have them in the cockpit, if many onboard, then perhaps 1 or 2 just inside the cabin or hanging over the swing arm that holds my fishfinder. But others...who knows...they may just keep them in the VBerth area.

So....where do you stand ? It sounds like you are laboring over wanting to be fully in compliance and getting a USCG LED Fixture anchor light on top of the mast and be re-assured that on top of the mast it WILL have 360 degree visibility but wavering over one of the other options that probably would be acceptable if the Coast Guard ever stopped you...and... I have been stopped by the Coast Guard but no issues. (Our area is just teaming with Homeland security forces and DC Harbor Police.)

By the way...I do not know what to say regarding the lawsuit concern. Yes - It is possible to get hit with a lawsuit if you go with something not fully in compliance. But not likely....but then it comes down to "Do you feel lucky ?" If not, then go the conservative route. Hell...about 5-10 years ago maybe you heard the lawsuit about this guy riding a bicycle at night without any lights and got hit by a car. He sued the bucycle mfr for not having anytihing in their flimsy pamphlet (that came with the bike) indicating lights are necessary if bike riding at night. He won the case against the bike mfr !!

Edited by - OLarryR on 05/17/2012 04:47:17

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