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Sail Slugs

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superbob
Navigator

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USA
200 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/12/2012 : 11:01:18

What's the rule of thumb for the number of sail slugs on a standard rig 250?

Bob Watson
Sparkle Plenty
'99 Catalina 250/WK #421
Oak Bottom Marina
Whiskeytown Lake CA

Edited by - on

superbob
Navigator

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USA
200 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2012 : 07:09:26

Gee, no responses to my question. This must be more difficult of a question than I thought. I'm trying to use fewer slugs in an attempt to ease the task of raising the mainsail but am I putting undue strain on the remaining slugs which in turn will cause them to snap. How about it, sailors...how many slugs on your mainsails? Even a ball park number would be helpful.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2012 : 07:19:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by superbob
 ...am I putting undue strain on the remaining slugs which in turn will cause them to snap.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I would be very concerned about that.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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3704 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2012 : 07:33:56

I will count our slugs the next time we go out. I recommend against removing slugs as it will put extra strain on the remaining slugs and would likely impact sail shape. The main should not be hard to raise. Are you sure the mast is vertical (Lie down on the deck and look up the track)? Have you lubricated the track/slugs? Are you using the winch to assist? I'm not a big guy and I'm 61 and I can raise the main to within the upper few inches by hand. Also, are you pointing directly into the wind when you raise the main?

Edited by - on

NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2012 : 07:42:39

Go to Lowes and get a spray can of dry lubricant. Spray it on the slugs and as high up the track as you can reach. Raise and lower a few times to spread it around. Do this once or twice a year. It made a huge difference for me.

Edited by - on

superbob
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200 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2012 : 10:15:10

Thanks everyones reply and advice. So....Yes, pointing into the wind (depends on who's driving) when hoisting and utilizing the winch. Yes, have used lube on the slugs. Mast is vertical.

A slug count from one of our members would be most helpful as all were detached from the main in order to have it cleaned professionally.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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3704 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2012 : 17:27:50

I'll be at the boat on Wednesday and will count them.

Is it taking a lot of effort to raise the sail or is this simply a question of how few slugs can you get away with. If the sail is hard to raise then I would ask - Any chance the outfit that cleaned your sail replaced the slugs with the wrong size? Can you take the top slug and easily move it up and down by hand? Is your outhaul too tight and pulling the main back too far? Note that sometimes a sail will shrink when cleaned so the outhaul placement that used to be right may now be too much.

I'll count them Wednesday.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 05/13/2012 17:46:29

GaryB
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4303 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2012 : 19:34:57

You shouldn't have to use a winch to raise the main on a C25 except to snug it up at the top. I'm guessing the slugs are the wrong size as suggested by Randy above.

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superbob
Navigator

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200 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2012 : 20:39:01

Thanks, Randy. I appreciate your help. Sail slugs/slides are 3/8".

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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3440 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2012 : 03:34:16

Bob,

I do not exactly understand this question. Even if one has a sail that has say 14 slugs and someone else has a sail with 12 or 15 slugs, that is not really the issue regarding hoisting your sail. If you occasionally use sail-kote or similar lube in the groove and on the slugs and hoist when motoring into the wind with the main sheet somewhat slack so the sail does not catch wind, you are not going to have an issue hoisting that sail. If one motors at a high speed, the sail will generally be harder to hoist as the sail does catch some wind and tension to hoist increases But to reduce the number of slugs because X person has 12 slugs and y person has 14 slugs makes no sense to me. Here's why - The slugs are located at each grommet in the sail and are generally equidistant from each other. If you reduce the number of slugs, you have created distance between at least 2 slugs that remain on the sail and from past experience when I have broken a slug, the sail shape suffers a bit especially when close tacking. It is not a desireable thing to increase the distance between slugs because it will ruin your sail shape as well as put addl stress on the 2 slugs that then have to share the addl load due to the missing slug. When hoisitng and then cleating the halyard, there is always a small amount of stretch in the halyard and the sail may be not quite taut...then having a longer gap because you purposely remove a slug will further exaggerate the reduced tension and the sail at that gap will have increased distance away from the mast when close hauled. When one brakes a slug, it is sometimes accompanied by a second slug breaking unless one starts to ease up on the main sheet...which one oftentimes will do since the sail shape starts to become compromised (most noticeably when close hauled).

On my sail, I have 2 slugs very close to each other at the top of the sail. Other than those two that are within 6" of each other, all the others are equally spaced. Removing one would increase the gap between slugs from about 1 1/2' to at least 3' or more and that is quite a distance without a slug to gain some slight benefit in hoisting a main which should not be a big issue hoisting if motor speed is slow, heading into the wind and with the main sheet with room for the boom to swing.....that's my opinion.

Edited by - OLarryR on 05/14/2012 03:45:02

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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3444 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2012 : 07:05:25

I had a couple of spiders' nests in my track that made it a tight fit for the slugs. Cleaning out made a big difference. Even with that I need the winch to hoist the last foot or two.

I also think reducing the number of slugs is a bad idea. Mostly cuz I'm cheap. The evenly distributed slugs not only prevent bad sail shape, they distribute the load on the sail fabric and thereby reduce the risk of tearing the sail.

Randy makes a good point about the outhaul and sail shrinkage. You also might want to be sure to keep your topping lift tight until the sail is raised. Lifting the weight of the boom with the main halyard increases resistance unnecessarily.

Edited by - on

superbob
Navigator

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USA
200 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2012 : 07:13:26

Larry: Point well taken. Thanks.

John: The topping lift is always cinched tightly and then released once the sails are up. Good point though for inexperienced sailors and on fewer slugs affecting sail shape.

Having not sailed with a few less slugs plan on adding back those removed before today's sail.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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3440 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2012 : 09:23:44

Bob,

Yes - Good idea to use all the slugs. But if you did not use all the slugs, I do not think the slugs closest to the removed one will snap right away. I mostly have the all plastic slugs but I also have a few of the reinforced ones that are reinforced with SS in them. The all plastic slugs are obviously more susceptible to breakage but I would say it is not something that happens right away. It is usually after they have been used thru a few seasons and I guess it is a combo between ageing and fatigue cracks developing in them. Even on my new sails, I had one plastic slug break and the slugs were then only 2 years old. This past winter, I had my old sails on and during one sail with a pretty stiff breeze, one slug broke followed by another about 5 minutes later. I was still able to sail but avoided a close hauled tack. Then when I was docked, I replaced both with extra slugs.

My old sails (original Catalina sails) have the standard slug attachments with a SS fitting that allows the attachment of the slug. But on my new sails which are of a higher quality, you would think they would put on the higher quality sail slugs with the SS reinforcement especially since the slugs are attached via webbing. But they used the less expensive plastic slugs and when I broke one of the plastic slugs, there is no easy way to re-attach a slug without undoing the webbing. I wound up using a SS fitting thru the webbing since there was not enough room to attach the fitting directly to the grommet. It is not the ideal attachment method using the fitting attached to the webbing and then to the slug but ...it works. The difference is the attachment holds the sail slightly further away from the slug/mast. Not much difference...maybe an addl 1/4" - 1/2" or so. This was about a year or so ago and so far, no addl slugs have failed. If it proves failure prone, then I will not use the fitting and instead redo the webbing and use a slug with the SS reinforcement.

Edited by - OLarryR on 05/14/2012 09:28:28

Sam Plummer
1st Mate

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USA
35 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2012 : 11:42:12

I replaced my slugs/slides with " Alslip internal low friction slides" from Sailcare (A117) You will need a sewing kit from Sailcare. Call Sailcare 800-433-7245.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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3704 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2012 : 18:52:42

10 slugs on the mast track.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2012 : 19:33:12

SailKote!

Used it on our furling jib, worked wonders!

Paul

Edited by - on

superbob
Navigator

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USA
200 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2012 : 20:53:15

Thanks, Randy. Same count as mine.

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Tradewind
Admiral

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USA
531 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2012 : 06:03:22

A little OT but Paul, you used SailKote on the plastic furling drum? I'll try that before I spring for the bearings, a less expensive option. My CDI is getting difficult to turn again.

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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3704 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2012 : 10:00:13

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Tradewind
 A little OT but Paul, you used SailKote on the plastic furling drum? I'll try that before I spring for the bearings, a less expensive option. My CDI is getting difficult to turn again.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Get the ball bearings. Completely transforms the furling effort.

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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3440 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2012 : 20:35:59

I left early from the office today and went sailing. The sail slug count on my Quantum main sail is 15 slugs with two at the top separated only 3-4" apart.

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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3704 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2012 : 06:33:07

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OLarryR
 I left early from the office today and went sailing. The sail slug count on my Quantum main sail is 15 slugs with two at the top separated only 3-4" apart.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That's a tall rig C25.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 05/18/2012 06:36:07

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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3440 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2012 : 09:19:53

Good point ! Right - That's 15 slugs on my main (Quantum MFR) on a tall rig....and originator interested in slug count on a std rig.

Still....10 slugs on a std and 15 on a tall rig main....it would seem that some sailmakers utilize more slugs spacing them closer together or the inverse, some sailmakers space the slugs further apart and therefore utilize less slugs.

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pa-sailor
1st Mate

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USA
67 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2012 : 10:18:00

I have a st'd rig 250WK with 10 slugs. Never had a problem with metal slugs, but did break the original nylon slugs

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willy
Captain

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USA
422 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2012 : 04:57:25

Bob,
My friend across the pier made a track cleaning tool. He took a sail slug, (not attached to the sail), and fixed a piece of terrycloth and a messenger line to it. He sprays a lot of Sailcoat on the terrycloth, runs it up the track with the halyard, and pulls it back down with the messenger.
I have only had difficulty raising my main once and found that the tuning was off...and not by far...causing the track not to be true. I laid down on the deck with my head at the base of the mast and looking up, I saw a VERY slight deviation in the tracks line. A little adjustment to my shrouds had my sail setting and striking with ease.
Willy

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