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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Self Tailing Winch Size

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DaveC
Deckhand

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20 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/16/2012 : 15:45:59

Thinking of upgrading to self tailing winches for shorthanded sailing and looking at the Lewmar 14ST vs. 16ST. Power ratio is the same for both 15.8:1... only differance is height 4 3/4" vs. 5 3/4" (and cost). Any advice?

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4018 Posts

Response Posted - 02/16/2012 : 16:40:39

My boat has the 16ST's on it and I believe they were factory installed. Love them. Not having to cleat the jib sheets,Priceless.

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JeanAndre
Navigator

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USA
224 Posts

Response Posted - 02/16/2012 : 17:45:19

For me, the larger the diameter of the winch the better. A larger winch gives you more leverage remember the fulcrum? In this case the leverage is the radius of the winch so I would go for the 16ST. Altought 14ST is a good size for the cabin top if you are taking lines back to the cockpit.

On a related note, please let me know if and when you will sell your NonST winches, I might have interest in them!

Cheers

Edited by - on

DaveC
Deckhand

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20 Posts

Response Posted - 02/16/2012 : 18:46:18

Sorry, but I'm not planning to sell... Planning to remount aft and use them for when I fly my spinnaker.

Thanks for advice! Was leaning toward the 16ST, but figured it was worth the post to get other opinions.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 02/16/2012 : 20:48:29

My '89 has 16ST's and as Scott mentioned they are priceless.

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3440 Posts

Response Posted - 02/17/2012 : 04:16:14

Same here - I have 16s. They work fine. Can't comment operationally on the 14s. Only nit with 14s based on dimensional difference noted in other posting is that if it is lower in height then I assume it has less room to wrap the main sheets around at the end of the day. I like to wrap my main sheet completely around the winch drum when I clean up after sailing. If you have 1" less drum height, then some of the main sheet probably won't fit on the drum. Such a minor nit probably does not enter into the decison making process but it's the only thing I could think of based on the drum height difference.

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5895 Posts

Response Posted - 02/17/2012 : 07:29:39

For those who are looking for winches, be sure to check ebay and craigslist daily. Really good deals are out there, but as always, you have to wait patiently for the good deal, you have to know a value when you see it, and you have to jump on it before someone else does. Insist that the seller make an unequivocal representation that the winches are in either "used" or "new" condition, as those terms are defined by ebay, and pay with Paypal.

For example, there's presently a pair of 25 year old, never-been-used size 16 Meissner one-speed, non-ST winches on ebay with a buy-it-now price of $129. for the pair, with free shipping, that look pretty good. I don't know anything about Meissner, but Googled them, and their website was touting their racing winches.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 02/17/2012 07:31:10

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 02/17/2012 : 07:51:02

Mt boat has 2-speed winches, and they are 16's.

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JeanAndre
Navigator

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USA
224 Posts

Response Posted - 02/17/2012 : 15:56:28

Hi Steve,
I looked for the ebay winches and I can´t find them, can you send me the link?
Thank you

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5895 Posts

Response Posted - 02/17/2012 : 16:25:56

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JeanAndre
 Hi Steve,
I looked for the ebay winches and I can´t find them, can you send me the link?
Thank you

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Sorry. I should have included the link. Here it is.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Winches-Lewmar-Barient-Set-of-2-16-Meissner-1-Speed-Winches-/320848624223?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear& hash=item4ab4117a5f& vxp=mtr

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DaveC
Deckhand

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20 Posts

Response Posted - 02/17/2012 : 18:24:53

Any opinions on Alloy Alum vs. Chrome?

Thx

Edited by - on

JeanAndre
Navigator

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USA
224 Posts

Response Posted - 02/17/2012 : 19:15:55

Thanks Steve for the link.

As for alum vs. Chrome. I´d would compare looks vs. Weight. For a modern all FRP or composite hull my taste is towards the Alum but for a Classic Wooden boat, Chrome or Bronze are my choices. If you will be racing, then just go for the lightest one.

My 2/100

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5895 Posts

Response Posted - 02/17/2012 : 20:10:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by DaveC
 Any opinions on Alloy Alum vs. Chrome?

Thx
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I think it's mostly aesthetics, but durability has a little to do with it. Do you like the unadorned look of all aluminum, or aluminum with chrome trim, or aluminum with stainless steel trim (chrome will eventually erode or peel, but stainless steel won't), or the old fashioned look of bronze? Stainless is also somewhat more durable than aluminum. (the knurling around the drum will wear away from aluminum winches eventually, causing the sheet to lose grip around the drum, but it will take many years for that to happen. I don't know if that can happen at all with a stainless steel winch.)

Edited by - on

DaveC
Deckhand

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20 Posts

Response Posted - 02/17/2012 : 20:27:03

I'm pretty sure the Alum is hardcoated. That's pretty tough stuff and I doubt that there would be any wear from dacron braided lines.

I'm in Purchasing for an industrial mfg. company and we buy hardcoated machined parts for high wear applications all the time. I've never experience wear issues...

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5895 Posts

Response Posted - 02/17/2012 : 20:53:32

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by DaveC
 I'm pretty sure the Alum is hardcoated. That's pretty tough stuff and I doubt that there would be any wear from dacron braided lines.

I'm in Purchasing for an industrial mfg. company and we buy hardcoated machined parts for high wear applications all the time. I've never experience wear issues...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I know it's hard to imagine, but I've seen it. There was a discussion about it on sailnet at the following link: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/80293-slipping-winches.html

Edited by - on

DaveC
Deckhand

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20 Posts

Response Posted - 02/17/2012 : 21:19:22

Hard to believe, but I'll take that into consideration... I was leaning toward the chrome anyway, since they'd match my original winches.

Thanks for your comments...

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5895 Posts

Response Posted - 02/18/2012 : 06:06:15

If you buy used winches online, enlarge the photos as much as possible. Sometimes you can see a difference between where the surface still has a texture and where it is worn smooth.

I just bought a pair of used winches online, and saw a lot of nasty looking old winches. The worst seemed to be in the deep south, especially Florida, where they can be used year around, and the sheets and winches can get encrusted with salt. I imagine salt can be abrasive, and it can certainly cause chrome plating to pit. That, too, is probably much less of a concern for fresh water, northern winches, but it would be good reason to wash the salt out of the sheets whenever they become stiff and salt encrusted. I think some of these problems are probably less of a concern for smaller winches because they aren't subjected to the amount of force exerted by the sheets on the genoa of a 40' masthead rigged boat, for example, but I have seen a lot of badly pitted Florida winches. There are lots of good deals on winches, but you have to look carefully.

Edited by - on

JeanAndre
Navigator

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USA
224 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2012 : 08:35:30

Hello Steve,

I got two pairs of the "25 year ld brand new Meissner winches" on ebay. They arrived yesterday and they look just like that, brand spanking new. And I paid just 200 for all 4 of them. Even though they are not self tailing I could not be happier.

Thanks for the link.

Have a great weekend

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5895 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2012 : 12:22:39

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JeanAndre
 Hello Steve,

I got two pairs of the "25 year ld brand new Meissner winches" on ebay. They arrived yesterday and they look just like that, brand spanking new. And I paid just 200 for all 4 of them. Even though they are not self tailing I could not be happier.

Thanks for the link.

Have a great weekend<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Having recommended them to you, I was scared to death that they might be a disappointment. What a relief!

If anyone is interested, apparently the same seller has two pairs of 25 year old, unused 2 speed, non-self tailing Meissner winches on sale on ebay for $249 per pair, but Andre has proven that the seller will listen to a reasonable offer. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Winches-Lewmar-Barient-Set-2-18-Meissner-2-Speed-Sailboat-Winches-/330690986030?hash=item4cfeb8002e& item=330690986030& pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear& vxp=mtr

Edited by - on

JeanAndre
Navigator

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USA
224 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2012 : 17:07:00

Hi Steve,
The winches look like the pictures. They have some very small scratches, but nothing a few dais sailing won´t take care. I am happy with them.

The seller actually has a Craigslist offer as well. http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/boa/2860929165.html

At this point I will use the general disclaimer (don´t know the guy, etc....) but I purchased form him once and would do it again if needed.

Cheers

Edited by - on

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