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Winter Sailing Question

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Unsinkable2
Captain

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USA
273 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/16/2011 : 08:34:28

I took a group out sailing a week ago in some wintry conditions. Winds in the low 20s and temps in the 30s. The sun had gone down and there was a nearly full moon. Water temps were still around 50.

Last sail of the year before the lake starts icing over.

It started me thinking, what precautions do you take when winter sailing? You can read more about the trip in this blog post:

http://blog.unsinkable2.com/2011/11/windy-winter-nights-sail.html

--Skipper of the Unsinkable2
http://blog.unsinkable2.com
1977 Catalina 25 SK/SR #246 "Unsinkable 2"
1964 Lido 14 #1878 "Tomato Sloop"

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3442 Posts

Response Posted - 11/16/2011 : 10:14:48

I sail in the winter and on two occasions had to travel thru very thin ice in a section of the marina to get out. Coming back, the ice refroze but was so thin, no damage and had good sails.

Of course there are risks and there is no coming back if the unthinkable occurs like hitting something and the boat taking on water or falling off the boat...then a PFD will be of limited benefit since hypothermia will set in. I have taken a look at the suits they have to protect against hypothermia but these are generally so bulky and expensive that I have not consdered getting the gear. So, putting hypothermia aside...and that's a big one, there are other things to be aware of or guard against.

The basics: It is obviously a time of year that dressing warmer than you would normally dress is appropriate. Liners under your socks would be a good idea. Layers under a winter jacket definitely appropriate because unlike bicycling in cold weather where you are burning calories and normally dress as though it was warmer outside, the opposite is the case when sailing. You are mostly sedentary and your face/body are being windblown which will take a toll. So, bestto dress warmer than you normally would. a hood or a liner under your sailing hat may be appropriate. They have head caps/liners for bicyclists and so that may be beneficial against the elements. There is also a big difference in how you dress or even consider sailing depending if the sun is out or not. The sun will obviously make for a more pleasant sail in the winter from the warmth derived as the rays hit your jacket, etc.

When returning to the dock and putting things away. After my outboard is raised vertically, I always will pull the cord/start the outboard momentarily just to help flick water off the outboard internals such as the water impeller. That way, when going out the next time, you minimize any chance that some water has iced around the impeller and the impeller then damaged when starting up.

I cannot really think right now of anything else I do other than I will generally not sail if a big storm came through a day or so ago. I want to definitely minimize chances that I will hit an underground log, etc that has floated down the river. While this is good to practice all year round, it takes on a special meaning during winter. I recall one year having first cut thru about 1/8" of ice in a section of the marina, then hitting something underground out on the river that brought me to a complete halt. You can bet I then immediately checked the bilge area for any sign of leakage. But I have had no issue.

The other thing to be very careful about especially with guests is just the walking to/from the boat on what could be an icy dock/floating slip. When approaching the slip, best to be very careful as to how getting off to secure the lines. One slip and you can be in the drink.

I have a custom cover and I put it on only when snow is predicted for say greater than 3-4". There have been times when we have had snow or an ice crust mixture and I have gone down the next day, cleared off the cover, took the cover off and went sailing that day or generally a day later. So, a cover can facilitate preparing to sail on what turns out to be beautiful days right after a snow...or let's say a couple of days later when without a cover, the cockpit area may be hard to clear of crusty snow/ice.

I generally will not go with temps hovering in the low/mid 30s but oftentimes the weather will warm up into the high 30s/low 40s and that's when I will start to go out again even though many boats are still snow covered or have shrink wrap on them. Those with inboards motors or inboard/outboards are generally done for the season since they have winterized their motors but those of us with outboards that can be raised vertically and drain the outboard of water, winter sailing is viable....but there are always hypothermia risks.

Edited by - OLarryR on 11/16/2011 10:21:05

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 11/16/2011 : 10:47:20

Well.. I'm not a cold water sailor, but still I can make a suggestion.

I'd keep a 100 foot 1/2in floating line with float on the end ready at the back of the boat to deploy in case of MOB. In water that cold I'd want to be able to pick them up quick.

Also cheep strobes on the life jackets. They are for sale in the dive shops.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 11/16/2011 : 11:19:55

I left my boat in one winter years ago. Nothing is colder than fiberglass and stainless steel in February. It completely killed any desire to leave my boat in over the winter. Sold the bubbler.

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Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 11/16/2011 : 14:34:31

I have no experience sailing in the winter...this will be my first.

I have done alot of camping in cold weather....motorcycle riding.....and I'm a Scuba Instructor in my spare time.

Some good advice given above by Larry....in addition.I would recommend a full set of dry clothes and a towel, kept in a duffel down in the cabin. Just in case you fall in, get splashed or rained on or something. Get out of those wet clothes immediately.

Keeping warm is a matter of layering. When I ride in the winter, what I wear depends on the temps and how far I'm going. My leathers are really only for cutting the wind...keeping warm is all about the undergarments. I would think that sailing would be the same...need a good shell to cut the wind, then some undergarments for warmth.

If you have a good system, like I do for my bike....using my leathers as an outer shell, I can have many different combinations of long johns, fleece tops, hoodies, t shirts, etc....to combine for the temp range I'm expecting to see.

Note: I'm not recommending leathers for sailing....

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 11/16/2011 : 15:06:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Joe Diver
 ...If you have a good system, like I do for my bike....using my leathers as an outer shell,...

Note: I'm not recommending leathers for sailing....<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Nice yellow foulies will do as an outer layer, and in case of MOB, will help them find the body.

You should presume nobody else is out there, and no emergency resources are on call. Good Samaritan boats are all on the hard, Sea Tow and TowboatUS are home sitting by the fire, and the USCG is driving their tugboats in harbors to clear ice. You're probably on your own.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3442 Posts

Response Posted - 11/16/2011 : 16:06:46

Read the other posts - All good comments. Thought of a few more things:

First of all, a lot has to do with your area. I am not exactly located in the north country with bitter cold winters but Virginia does indeed have it's cold spells and the Potomac River is capable of freezing over for 4-6 weeks in any given year...or not at all. If I were still on Long Island, I would have my boat hauled out as I did in the past. But my marina in DC area has flow agitators and so the water between the slps is for the most part free of ice when ice does start to form first in normally calm water areas. If you were located Florida, well then winter takes on a whole different meaning reagarding days available for sailing. So...your winter weather conditions and marina facilities have a lot to do with deciding whether or not to sail in the winter on the good days.

Not that I feel a whole lot safer but I am in a relatively active and noisy area with helicopters, USCG and DC Harbor patrol boats buzzing the area. I have even seen them out breaking thru ice on the Anacostia River....but definitely a bit quieter in the winter and if one were to fall off the boat...doubtful anyone could rescue one in time before hypothermia sets in...and I am not willing to test that out to see if it is true.

Gloves...not sailing gloves. best to get a pair of bicycle wool/knit gloves with the little rubber nubbies on one side. They have worked well for me in the winter time. Performance Bike is located in many states and on-line and they have those type gloves. The knitted gloves are flexible enough but also warmer than sailing gloves.

Sailing or not....best to empty out the porta potti. You could put marine anti-freeze in it...but in the winter you are likely not to be going on any major adventures. Perhaps a 2-3 hour sail. Recommend for an emergency just have one of those urinal bottles tucked into the cockpit locker. Rcmd also pouring some marine anti-freeze down the sink drains, open the seacocks briefly for it to partially drain and then make sure the seacocks are shut. By the way...if you put too much anti-freeze into the galley sink before the seacock has been opened....the antifreeze may back up into the cold box by coming up it's drain.

Can you guys think of anything else ?

Edited by - OLarryR on 11/16/2011 16:11:18

OJ
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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 11/16/2011 : 16:15:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Unsinkable2
 . . . what precautions do you take when winter sailing?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Bareboat charter in the Virgin Islands

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redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 11/16/2011 : 17:17:12

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OLarryR
 Can you guys think of anything else ?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yep, electric motorcycle jackets... http://gerbing.com/ Work great, the biggest problem with sailing in the cold is that if you get really cold your judgement could be impaired, OR you will surely have a good case of get home-itus, which can beget other problems. I'd have a heater on board. Lotsa hook, and a I'll just park here and warm up mentality.

sten

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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 11/16/2011 : 18:09:22

If you've ever gotten damp or chilled while away from the dock it can make time seem like it's standing still and you will be miserable.

I'd suggest that it wouldn't hurt to carry a sleeping bag in case you do get wet and thoroughly chilled. Drop the hook and climb in the bag for a while to warm up before changing into your dry clothing.

Might mean he difference between making it and not.

Edited by - on

hewebb
Admiral

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USA
761 Posts

Response Posted - 11/17/2011 : 06:02:25

Where we live the water does not freeze but gets cold. I would get a divers wet suit if I were to go sailing in the cold. I have been diving nearly year around in the great lakes and the wet suit keeps you comfortable and will be a good floatation device.

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Salvation
1st Mate

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USA
32 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2011 : 16:48:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by hewebb
 Where we live the water does not freeze but gets cold. I would get a divers wet suit if I were to go sailing in the cold. I have been diving nearly year around in the great lakes and the wet suit keeps you comfortable and will be a good floatation device.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Sounds like a great idea! I sail year-round here on Clear Lake and Galveston bay and a wet suit would be a great addition for my winter safety gear.

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5357 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2011 : 19:41:35

I've done a lot of kayaking in the spring and late into the fall. We have a few rules such as dress for the water temps and expect to fall in. Never kayak alone and three is better than two (one can stay with the victim while the other goes for help). File a float plan. USCG offers a standard form on their website, and provide one to a loved on and put the other copy in your car. Include departure time, names and number of crew, car types and colors for each crew, planned route, expected return time, phone number of a loved one, etc.

After Oct 31, many people wear full wet suits while others wear a dry suit. No Farmer Johns or Farmer Janes - not enough coverage.

Here are the basics of additional clothing in cold conditions.
NO COTTON ANYTHING! No Jeans, no long sleeve tee shirts, no cotton button down shirts, no cotton socks, no cotton jackets or sweatshirts. Why? Once cotton gets wet it stays wet, it does not repel water but keeps it against your skin. Instant hypothermia.
You should wear polypropylene long underwear - Under Armor or other brands as a base layer. It does not hold water.
Fleece is excellent as an overlayer - both tops and bottoms
If you don't like fleece, wool will do fine too - it is hydrophobic and will repel water.
Nylon slacks and windbreaker.
Neoprene boots and gloves are very good if you are immersed.
Wool hat, fleece gloves with wool over, or waterproof gloves.
Strobe on your PFD. Lots of suppliers
Waterproof handheld VHF radio velcroed to your person. You should be able to make a call when you're in the water.
Keep a down sleeping bag on hand.
If you find someone with hypothermia, call 911. Get an expert. Warming them too slowly can be fatal, but warming them too quickly can cause heart attack or stroke.
There are loads of resources on hypothermia and kayaking. Same applies for sailboating in winter.

Edited by - on

At Ease
Admiral

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672 Posts

Response Posted - 11/26/2011 : 18:29:49

I don't go sailing if you don't need ice to keep the beer cold.

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