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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Line replacement/size/lengths, etc.

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/25/2011 : 08:11:59

Shortly after we bought "Recess", I came across this website. Useful info on line specs, based on a tall rig, so I thought I'd share it again. BTW, some of his listings are a bit on the long side; he lists halyards to the cockpit at 85', I bought 78 ft. and that was more than sufficient for our boat.

http://home.comcast.net/~c30sailor/c25/c25specs.htm

DavidP
1975 C-22 SK #5459 "Shadowfax" Fleet 52
PO of 1984 C-25 SK/TR #4142 "Recess"
Percy Priest Yacht Club, Hamilton Creek Marina, Nashville, TN

Edited by - dmpilc on 10/25/2011 08:20:22

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5895 Posts

Response Posted - 10/25/2011 : 11:32:44

Those specs don't look right, and I wouldn't rely on them. I know 7/16 is oversized for sheets (which should be 3/8), and other specs look too big also. Using oversized lines on a sailboat is like taking too much medicine. It isn't a harmless excess. It's counterproductive. Using oversized lines is expensive, because you're paying more money for bigger lines that you don't need for strength, and that will be much too heavy when the wind lightens. Oversized lines don't generally run as freely through blocks and other hardware.

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Ape-X
Admiral

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USA
662 Posts

Response Posted - 10/25/2011 : 13:50:20

is there an overall sheet like this available then. We suffer from the po oversizing sheets. The dock lines are 1/2", were using two 50' 1/2" sheets for the 150% gen, and the main halyard is 1/2" to wire as well.....speaking of which, what is the benefit in switching to all rode halyards?

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5895 Posts

Response Posted - 10/25/2011 : 14:22:52

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Ape-X
 is there an overall sheet like this available then. We suffer from the po oversizing sheets. The dock lines are 1/2", were using two 50' 1/2" sheets for the 150% gen, and the main halyard is 1/2" to wire as well.....speaking of which, what is the benefit in switching to all rode halyards?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I don't know of one, but that's an oversight that we should correct. We have so many inquiries about line lengths and sizes that we really should have a list of recommended sizes, and it could be posted under "Tech tips." We can only provide lengths for factory stock boats. Owners of boats with owner-installed modifications would have to measure their existing lines. If our members will suggest sizes and lengths for various applications, poerhaps we can create one.

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 10/25/2011 : 15:43:22

I would have to measure mine in a couple of weeks, but I think the sheets are 65 - 70 feet total with and eye in the middle, so 32 - 35 feet per side - 1.5 boat lengths is frequently recommended. I have two sets, 3/8" and 7/16"; the 3/8" are better in light air, but the 7/16" feel better in my 67 year old hands. It is amazing what a difference 1/16" can make. My main halyard is about 70' x 1/4", and the jib is about 75' x 5/16" - 5' longer might be better. I went with West Marine's recommendation for diameter, but 1/4" would probably have been fine on both since I got vectran V-100 on sale.

edit: I keep forgetting who has the soft, single braid sheets, but that would be a much nicer way to go instead of stayset.

Edited by - Dave5041 on 10/25/2011 15:47:54

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 10/26/2011 : 06:29:56

<< what is the benefit in switching to all rode halyards? >>

IMHO

Line does not seem to hang at the top as often as wire, the wire would sometimes jump the sheave ( cracked sheave ) .

Line does not damage the sheave if it does jump.

Meathooks.

Easier to replace line halyards.

disadvantage.. Line does not last anywhere near a long as wire.

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Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 10/26/2011 : 07:24:38

Another advantage of line over wire: If you disconnect the halyard from the wire the weight of the wire forward of the mast can pull the unattached end all the way to the top of the mast.

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 10/26/2011 : 09:03:31

I will agree that 7/16" line is oversized for main and jib sheets on the C-25; 3/8" is certainly sufficient. It was most likely a preference of feel in the hand for the author. I do know that the PO of our boat used a heavier line on the working jib than the genoa because a heavier line came attached to the sail. In a major blow on big water, that heavier line may come in handy, but for us on an inland lake it certainly was overkill.
Another place to find certain line lengths is in the C-25 parts catalog in the Manuals and Brochures section. For example, the page below lists the jib and genoa line lengths as supplied by the factory, 65' and 75' respectively:

http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/manbro/pictures/pc20.gif

Edited by - dmpilc on 10/26/2011 09:09:49

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5895 Posts

Response Posted - 10/26/2011 : 09:47:55

We all have an absolute right to rig our boats any way we wish. For example, as I get older, my hand strength is becoming weaker, and that might someday cause me to rig my boat to accommodate that. But, I believe most people who use oversized lines do so, not for a valid reason, but simply because they don't know any better, or because they mistakenly think stronger lines must be better than smaller lines. It's important for all our owners to know what lines will perform the best on their boats, and why. Then, if they choose, knowledgeably, to vary from that for their own reasons, that's their absolute right.

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pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 10/26/2011 : 10:41:32

In light air a heavy mainsheet or genoa sheets pull the sail in because of their weight. If the line is too small at least it is light!

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 10/26/2011 : 14:02:08

I started promoting single-braid here for sheets after using them on a friend's boat. If I'd kept Passage, I would have replaced her sheets with it and downsized to 3/8" from the 1/2" that came with her. And I thought about changing the mainsheet from 4:1 to 3:1 purchase to reduce the amount of take-up.

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Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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3321 Posts

Response Posted - 10/26/2011 : 15:11:21

My mainsheet is 5/16" x 60' I also switched from a 4:1 purchase to a 3:1 to cut down on friction and make trimming faster.
My halyards are 6mm vectran spliced into 5/16" stayset. The main is 65' and the genoa 75' (long enough that it comes back to the coaming winch for hauling people up the mast).
Jib sheets are 5/16" for both the 110% and the 155%. I also have a set of 1/4" genoa sheets for light air days.
Topping lift, outhaul and reefing line are all 3/16". Boom vang is also 5/16".

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 10/26/2011 : 15:58:58

Single braid is definitely the way to go for genoa and main sheets; flies through the blocks. As I've said in other forums, one of my favorites is BZZZ line which I buy from Milwaukee Rigging. The max size is 8mm or 5/16", and I use it on the C-22 for both genoa and main (as well as FSE Robline), and for the C-25 for genoa. The 3/8" version of BZZZ line is under the Salsa name, but I haven't bought any of that yet. If I could afford it, I would be using 3/8" to 7/16" Swiftcord for my mainsheet. Great line and it doesn't absorb water, so it stays light weight and is soft in the hand. I've also got standard Sta-set type double braid lines for general cruising and lazy daysailing.

Edited by - dmpilc on 10/26/2011 16:12:03

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 10/27/2011 : 10:23:00

One way to shorten your main sheet line length requirement is to add a single 5/16" or 3/8" line between the boom end and the top block in your mainsheet tackle. Set it up so that with the sail fully hoisted and the boom centered, the top block is almost touching the block on the traveler. Whatever the length of that line turns out to be, multiplied by 3 or 4, will be the amount of mainsheet line you won't have to buy, or sheet in when the boom is out wide.
Here's a pic so you can visualize what I mean. The knot at the bottom was temporary while I determined the length needed.

I have a carbo airblock with becket on top and a fiddle block with cam and becket on the traveler, so I have 3 lengths of line between the blocks.
My single line is roughly 2 1/2' long, so that's about 7 1/2' of line that I don't have to sheet in.
If I want to in light air, I can tie off the sheet to the becket on the fiddle block and then have 2 lengths of line in the sheet set-up, or tie the sheet to the carbo block and have only one line between the boom and the traveler (in which case I would remove the single short line and move the carbo block up to the boom. Lots of flexibility.

Edited by - dmpilc on 10/27/2011 10:43:24

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