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Worst weather sailed in a swing keel

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albert
Captain

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USA
262 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/18/2002 : 13:45:22

What's the worst wind/chop sailed using a swing keel C25? How did the keel behave? Did it start "swinging" back on its own while sailing into waves?

Albert Iturrey
al@comhertz.com
Abacus': http://www.comhertz.com/abacus

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Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 12/18/2002 : 16:30:46

Albert - I don't know about a C25 swing (I now have a fixed keel) but I sank a swing C22 on an inland lake)in a 35 knot gust...<img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle>
Derek

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Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 12/18/2002 : 16:53:46

Derek,

Tell us what happened. I currently own a swing keel 22, until I find a Wing 25 to buy.

Frank

Frank

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Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 12/18/2002 : 21:54:46

I have relayed this too many times already, but I'll answer your question. Last spring I motored into 40+ headwinds while going with a 3 knot current here in the Columbia River. I was alone; the Yamaha cavitated several times and the 6' or more waves were very steep. Spray was coming at least over the spreaders. The boat pounded hard and slammed hard. I was pretty nervous for more than an hour until I got into more shelter and finally in. A 43' Columbia had the windspeed indicator and told me he'd never seen waves on the river before that could stop his boat in its tracks like those did.

Another time, in the Strait of Georgia, I was sailing 6+ knots downwind with just the 80% jib up. It was blowing around 40 and the current was running at least 5 knots in the opposite direction, which made for big waves. I am sure some were 10' or more and very steep. When the sheet parted we had to lie abeam to the seas while I rerigged a sheet. I think we were knocked beyond 50 degrees of heel a number of times, but I was on the foredeck. I honestly thought that capsizing was possible, but couldn't keep the Honda 8 LS in the water (t'was since replaced with Yamaha) so we took a beating.

In any case, in neither occasion have I EVER been aware of my swing keel banging or slamming in the trunk. I have a good pivot assembly with very little play, so that may be the reason. I keep the keel down nearly all the time. In my opinion, the C25 is certainly not a "blue water" boat, but in a pinch, it will take a lickin' and keep on tickin'

Gary B.
Encore! #685 SK/SR

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Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 12/18/2002 : 21:57:36

Frank, I think most of the guys here have read the story - but for anyone who hasn't...
We were racing (naturally!) in 23 knot winds with a reefed main and a 110. Keel was down but not locked...(stupid!). Running downwind poled out we were hit by a 35 knot gust and a 90 degree windshift (welcome to Canyon Lake!) The jib backwinded and we broached with the boom in the water. The large chop on the lake hit the keel and helped collapse it, and the boat turtled. Fortunately we were wearing PFD's, stepped off into the water (I didn't even get my sunglasses wet!) and were picked up in about 1 1/2 mins by a C30 to leeward of us.
Moral of this story - keep your keel locked down!!
Derek, ex-"Bluewind"
P.S. I agree with the other post that a 1500 lb keel should be a lot harder to collapse (or move around) than a 500 lb one.

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Bryan Beamer
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1038 Posts

Response Posted - 12/18/2002 : 22:36:14

Derek,

I take it that's how the name "This Side Up" came about?

Bryan Beamer
Daylight Again
C250wk #495

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Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2002 : 09:44:37

Bryan - yes indeed! We got so much ribbing from the "old salts" in the yacht club that when we got the C25 we decided to name her that as a "pre-emptive strike"! The name gets us lots of attention and questions on the lake...
Derek

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2002 : 10:20:40

Derek...What do you mean by "Locked"

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/dreamimages/Flags/measurer.jpg" border=0>

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2002 : 11:59:19

What do you mean by "Locked"

I believe he is referring to the lockpin that is inserted into a lowered keel to prevent it from retracting into the trunk when a boat is starting to turtle.

Don Lucier, 'North Star'
C25 SR/FK
On the hard, 200ft from Lake Erie

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Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2002 : 13:29:46

Albert, looking at your three topics posted about swing keels, I wonder if you have the right boat. As someone else replied, the C25 SK is simply not designed to be a boat for open and large seas. Obviously the fin keel would be better, but the poptop, general level of construction, and rigging strength are not what's needed for significant offshore sailing.

Don't misunderstand: I absolutely adore my C25 SK/TR. It's the perfect boat for my kind of sailing, which is in the Chesapeake Bay in mostly good weather, and mostly daysailing with the occasional overnighter. If I go on a multi-day trip with my wife, we usually stay ashore. The swing keel alows me to sail in the often thin waters of the Bay. But if I wanted to go offshore, I'd get a Dana or a Cape Dory or an Island Packet or whatever. If the weather's rough, I stay home.

At the least, given your concerns, maybe you should look at the wing or even fin keel conversions. For what it's worth,I've sailed my SK in 25 knot winds and 6 foot seas with absolutely no problem, but I wouldn't want to make a habit of that.

Brooke

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Bill Sloane
1st Mate

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USA
91 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2002 : 15:05:02

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I believe he is referring to the lockpin that is inserted into a lowered keel to prevent it from retracting into the trunk when a boat is starting to turtle. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Where exactly does that lock pin go? I don't know about that.

Bill.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2002 : 16:49:20

Bill: We have a couple of simultaneous threads going on this... The net of it is, the C-25 doesn't have that, and probably shouldn't.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

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Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2002 : 18:15:22

Bill - on the C22, under the forward seat of the dinette, was a locking pin which could be tightened against the top of the keel. If memory serves me correctly (at my age that's a laugh!)it was only a "pressure" locking, with no hole thru' the keel. (In the C22 Nationals it's one of the things that they inspect).
Derek

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Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.