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Lights question

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michaelj
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132 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/03/2011 : 04:49:28

I decided to check all of my exterior lights a couple of days ago and found that neither of the running lights have lenses and the anchor light (or whatever is at the top of the mast) doesn't work. In checking on lighting requirements I am confused. I see that there are the port/starboard bow lights, steaming lights, stern lights, and anchor lights. Which of these do I need to have to be in complicance with the COLREGS? Also, I have read about people hoisting a lantern up on one of the halyards to serve as an anchor light. Does ths work? Any advice will be appreciated. Thanks.

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Davy J
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Response Posted - 01/03/2011 : 06:13:42

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> I am confused. I see that there are the port/starboard bow lights, steaming lights, stern lights, and anchor lights. Which of these do I need to have to be in complicance with the COLREGS? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

To my understanding, it depends on if you're sailing or motoring or motor sailing.

If you are sailing: port/starboard bow light and stern light on.

If you are motoring: port/starboard bow light and stern light on and steaming light on.

If you are motor sailing: same as above.

At anchor: only anchor light on.

When I anchor out, I also hang two small led lights on the boom that shine down on the cabin top and into the cockpit. These light shine directly down and light up the boat. I've seen too many power boats zoom through an anchorage not really paying attention to those mast anchor lights way up in the air.

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 01/03/2011 : 07:19:09

Davy's right. Anchor light off when under way; all other lights off when moored; steaming light on whenever under power--sails or none; off when under sail alone. (In other words, if you can see both a colored running light and a white light on a boat at the same time, that boat is under power. If he sees only your running light and no white, he must give way to you, since you're showing as a sailboat. Your stern light is designed to not be visible when the running light is, and vice versa.)

You can pretty much use any all-around white light as an anchor light, and that's not necessary in a "designated anchorage" (although it can be a good idea if traffic might be coming through). There's no reason to have it at the top of the mast--it just needs to be visible, and lower might be more in another boater's line of sight.

Allow me to make a suggestion: Pick up a copy of Chapman Piloting, the mariner's bible of regulations, rules of the road, and general seamanship. I like to flip through mine every winter, just to refresh my ever more feeble memory.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 01/03/2011 07:26:28

pastmember
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Response Posted - 01/03/2011 : 10:45:26

If you sail on a lake you can sail with everything and halogen spreader lights on too! We have an ODay 302 that sails like that... and everyone steers clear of him because we know he is night blind with all those lights on!

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Ryan L
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Response Posted - 01/03/2011 : 14:28:24

I second the Chapman recommendation.

Here are links to regulations regarding lights:
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/index.php?pageName=Rule25

Note that a sailboat under power is a "power-driven vessel" even if sails are up.
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/index.php?pageName=Rule23

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 Davy's right. Anchor light off when under way; all other lights off when moored; steaming light on whenever under power--sails or none; off when under sail alone. (In other words, if you can see both a colored running light and a white light on a boat at the same time, that boat is under power. If he sees only your running light and no white, he must give way to you, since you're showing as a sailboat. Your stern light is designed to not be visible when the running light is, and vice versa.)

You can pretty much use any all-around white light as an anchor light, and that's not necessary in a "designated anchorage" (although it can be a good idea if traffic might be coming through). There's no reason to have it at the top of the mast--it just needs to be visible, and lower might be more in another boater's line of sight.

Allow me to make a suggestion: Pick up a copy of Chapman Piloting, the mariner's bible of regulations, rules of the road, and general seamanship. I like to flip through mine every winter, just to refresh my ever more feeble memory.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 01/03/2011 : 15:26:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pastmember
 If you sail on a lake you can sail with everything and halogen spreader lights on too! We have an ODay 302 that sails like that...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Michael, understand that Frank has his tongue firmly planted in his cheek. No lights outside of the cabin except those specified when under way. On Pamlico Sound, you want to follow the regs... or let's just say the Coasties and local marine cops will "want" you to!

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 01/03/2011 15:29:16

pastmember
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Response Posted - 01/03/2011 : 16:06:45

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bigelowp
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Response Posted - 01/04/2011 : 14:53:58

. . . and then their is the use of a masthead tri-color to further confuse . . .

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skybird
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USA
135 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2011 : 19:39:17

my boat has the masthead tricolor and i have not found any explanation of its use. Please enlighten me! It won't matter anyway til i figure out why nothing up there shines at night.

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 01/04/2011 : 20:02:45

The tri-color is an alternative to all other lights on the boat when under sail--it shouldn't be used with anything else except, if you're under power, the steaming light so there's a white visible from forward.

I'm not a big fan of masthead running lights--I like them down closer to other boaters' line of sight.

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jhinton
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Response Posted - 01/05/2011 : 06:58:46

I'm not sure if this is what you meant, Stinkpotter, but the tri-color light should ONLY be used on a sailing vessel of less than 20 meters in length while underway under sail. If the sailing vessel is underway using auxiliary machinery (engine) the regular sidelights, stern light, and steaming light must be used (with a few uncommon exceptions).

I really like the tri-color light because it immediately identifies you as a sailing vessel under sail. The problem is that they are uncommon and not everyone will know what they are.

And that's not even mentioning the red-over-green lights that identify a sailing vessel!

Edited by - on

Prospector
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Response Posted - 01/05/2011 : 07:11:14

Also not a fan of the masthead tricolour. In our night race, these are teh worst boats to spot, and if you lose that one light, you simply disappear. At least with the lights on deck, if you lose one bulb you are still visible from one or two other directions, and have teh option to replace the bulb.

I can jury rig a steaming light or anchor light. Not so much a masthead tricolour.

Having said that, I have never had a running light go out when I absolutely needed it. I have sailed when I wanted to motor because the light was out, and I have jury rigged an anchor light (LED light in a ziplock bag hoisted to teh masthead). With all the trouble we have seen with electronics in general, and especially with our mast wiring (deckplug up to connections at fixtures) I am loathe to commit all my eggs to a masthead basket.

Edited by - on

bigelowp
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Response Posted - 01/05/2011 : 08:07:20

Tricolor lights are a missed blessing with advantages and disadvantages.

When working through the wiring on Limerick I went with masthead tricolor as it was the cheapest, easiest way to get reliable, visible, running lights going. On the C25 the location of forward running lights makes one or the other of them difficult to see when sailing and healing. I also have found the advantage with them that they clearly indicate you are a sailing vessel. Where I sail, in the evenings there are a lot of power boats running and gunning to get somewhere so being distinguished as a sail vessel helps a lot. With a mast of 30’ (@35’ over water surface) seeing the lights has not proven to be a problem. That said, when powering at night the boat is not “legal” and becomes an easy target for tired patrolling police who can easily catch up and ticket a lumbering sail vessel. At some point when I have the time and patience I plan on rewiring/wiring deck level running lights for “steaming” but for the minimal night work I do, the masthead tricolor works great.

As for the rules, assuming all lights are working and you have both then as the engine starts the lights have to be properly “trimmed” . . . .

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 01/05/2011 : 08:35:46

I stand corrected by John Hinton...

See, it's time for me to pull out my Chapman and refresh my feeble memory by the fireside as the snow falls... The key is that under power, a white light must be visible 360 degrees and should be at least one meter above the red/green (in the sector where the red or green is visible. That won't be the case if the red-green is at the masthead. So turn off the tricolor when under power and use the lights on the hull or rail, plus the steaming light. Under sail, use only the lower lights (less the steaming light) or the tricolor.

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glen
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Response Posted - 01/05/2011 : 10:45:28

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by bigelowp
 Tricolor lights are a missed blessing with advantages and disadvantages.

When working through the wiring on Limerick I went with masthead tricolor as it was the cheapest, easiest way to get reliable, visible, running lights going. On the C25 the location of forward running lights makes one or the other of them difficult to see when sailing and healing. I also have found the advantage with them that they clearly indicate you are a sailing vessel. Where I sail, in the evenings there are a lot of power boats running and gunning to get somewhere so being distinguished as a sail vessel helps a lot. With a mast of 30’ (@35’ over water surface) seeing the lights has not proven to be a problem. That said, when powering at night the boat is not “legal” and becomes an easy target for tired patrolling police who can easily catch up and ticket a lumbering sail vessel. At some point when I have the time and patience I plan on rewiring/wiring deck level running lights for “steaming” but for the minimal night work I do, the masthead tricolor works great.

As for the rules, assuming all lights are working and you have both then as the engine starts the lights have to be properly “trimmed” . . . .

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">A 4th light for night sailing. Have a hand held gazillion candle power light, ready to shine on one of those “running and gunning” boats. I use the type that plug into a 12 volt outlet. There bow is so far out of the water they probably don’t see you, and there motor is too loud to let them hear any audible warning. But if you shin them, as they are bearing down on you, they think you might be the sheriff. On Lake St. Clair, that gets there attention real quick

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Davy J
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Response Posted - 01/05/2011 : 10:52:53

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">But if you shin them, as they are bearing down on you, they think you might be the sheriff<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I have used a similar method with the million candle power light. But, instead of shining it at the operator of the other boat, I light up my sails. I think that way, if there were any legality, I would claim that I was checking the trim of the sails.

Edited by - on

Harleyworker
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USA
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Response Posted - 01/05/2011 : 20:16:44

When I am under power at night I run my red/green bow lights that have been relocated from the hull sides to the bow rail and the "slip into socket on 18" aluminum pole all around white light" from Wally world mounted on the stern. Technically I am in compliance as with all the powerboats on my lake. And when at anchor those lights get turned off and my masthead all around white anchor light comes on, along with cabin lights, cockpit lights, deck light, flashlight, headlight.....hmm sounds like a battery thread coming. Lol. (most are LEDs). I like having a light shining all nite down low along with the masthead white one, just so the 60 mph bass boats can see me when they come flying into a quiet cove I'm anchored in. It's sometimes fun at night watching the lights go zipping from one cove to another, all you see is the red/green and white zipping along the surface of the water, but only from a distance.

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Prospector
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Response Posted - 01/05/2011 : 20:41:44

Harley - to me it sounds like you are doing everything right.

Under sail you need colours on teh bow and white on teh transom.
Under power you add a white up high
At anchor you have a white up high, visible through 360° and no need for anythign else. However, since you are partying, and it makes your boat may visible, you may or may not want to light the sucker up and hang a disco ball someplace to add to ambiance (where did the Disco ball thread go??)

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 01/05/2011 : 20:49:53

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Harleyworker
 ...so the 60 mph bass boats can see me when they come flying into a quiet cove I'm anchored in. It's sometimes fun at night watching the lights go zipping from one cove to another, all you see is the red/green and white zipping along the surface of the water...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Zip, zip, SMASH, SCREAM, YELL, SCREAM,... sirens,...

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OLarryR
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Response Posted - 01/06/2011 : 04:51:47

Going back to MichaelJ's original post regarding regulations, etc, I agree Chapman is probably a great source for info regarding the regulations. I think the West Marine Catalog generally sums up the requirements as well in a table that they usually provide in each edition of their catalog. The benefit of going with the Catalog table is that if you have a 2010/2011 catalog, you will have the latest regulations, though, I do not believe these regs have changed much if any in recent years. The only concern I would have with Chapman is that the Chapman book has been the bible and I mean by that is that it has been of great reference but also has been issued from back in the days of the caveman. Many may be reviewing a Chapman that was published 20 years ago and I would ensure that you look at a fairly up to date edition in case any regs have changed in say the last 5-10 years (and maybe they haven't).

The other thing is that in regards to lights, many of the lights sold in WM or elsewhere, if you look at the info on the packaging, many will indicate they are Coast Guard Approved. There may be some lights out there that are not Coast Guard approved. This is the case with bulbs (ie. LEDs) that are sold to replace original bulbs in what was a US Coast Guard approved light housing. Now there are many LEDs that will meet the light reqmts (distance) and many of us have installed these LEDs in existing housings. But going by the book, the US Coast Guard apparently only approves complete fixtures and not bulbs. I mention this because there are so many products on the marketplace/web these days and if you have concerns regarding getting a replacement light/fixture, then just be aware that many manufacturers will state if their fixtures are USCG approved and for what distances. others do not. I bought a replacement anchor light made by OGM/Orcagreen and it is a 360 degree white LED light (with a single LED in it). It is USCG approved. I believe Lopolight also sells LED lights that are USCG approved. These days, many of the common mfrs that made the original lights for the Cat 25 also have LED light fistures that are USCG approved (Hella, Signal, etc). So, going by the book, there are lights that are labeled USCG approved (check for what distance and what distance needed for a CAT 25 in the regs) and there are those lights that are mute on whether they are USCG approved. Those that replace the incandescents bulbs with LEDs in an existing fisture - That is probably okay as many can attest to the brightness that their specific LED provides and it is doubtful any CG authoority is actually going to check out the brightness of a replacement bulb, but I just wanted to point out that when asking about the regulations...There is the distance, color light reqmt and perimeter spread reqmts and that there are also light fixtures that include USCG approved on their packaging...and there are those that don't have the USCG approval listed on their packaging.

Having said all that and having purchased an LED Anchor light that has USCG approval, I also like others have bought an LED bulb cluster that can replace my stern light incandescent. The bulb is not USCG approved but the packaging indicated it will be visible the required regulation distance...and so I am okay with that.

Anyway...that is the regs, USCG approvals, the "by the book" discussion and what some of us have also done with just bulb replacements that I could think of that may better help in your decisions.

Edited by - OLarryR on 01/06/2011 05:00:03

glen
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Response Posted - 01/06/2011 : 11:13:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Davy J
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">But if you shin them, as they are bearing down on you, they think you might be the sheriff<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I have used a similar method with the million candle power light. But, instead of shining it at the operator of the other boat, I light up my sails. I think that way, if there were any legality, I would claim that I was checking the trim of the sails.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

On Lake St Clair if you have identified your self as a sail boat, you have made your self a target. PS I do not shine them in such a manor as to cause them any hardship. It is a quick flash in there direction. (Well most of the time anyway)

Edited by - on

Harleyworker
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USA
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Response Posted - 01/06/2011 : 12:26:34

Prospector, under power I have red/green and white on transom, down low,18 inches off the coaming. And I hardly party too much any more, I just like leaving a nitelite on in the cockpit or on the sliding hatchway cause I know most of the boaters on my lake would not look up to see the masthead one.

Dave, that's good. Lol. Luckily the crashing part and siren part hasn't happened YET!!!

Edited by - on

michaelj
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Response Posted - 01/08/2011 : 07:01:36

Thanks to everyone who responded--this has been a real education. As luck would have it, the BoatUS magazine "Seaworthy" which is available online and which is very informative had a link to a USCG website which has a spiffy little online manual about ATON's, including boat lights. The website is

http://www.uscgboating.org/aton/aton.html.

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