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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Scupper tube replacement

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hillerji
1st Mate

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USA
37 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/23/2010 : 20:52:40

C-25 afficionados,

Can someone speak to the what is the correct type and procedure for replacing the scupper tubes in the cockpit? I've searched for it as a topic but kind of hit around it. I did see mention of brass tubes as opposed to the plastic/pvc ones that are breaking down now presently on board.

Insight and wisdom greatly appreciated.

J

Jon

'Arabesque'
#2479
1982 SR/FK
Thames Yacht Club
New London Ct.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 11/23/2010 : 21:15:15

My '82 had stock brass tubes. I resealed them and they were just fine. If you don't have brass then get it here.
http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=536

Edited by - on

hillerji
1st Mate

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USA
37 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2010 : 19:55:59

Thanks Frank,

I will add that to my CD wishlist.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2010 : 07:33:08

The link is for a kit that you do not need, you only need the tubes and the equipment to flare it after install, you do not need to use the cutter. I hope replacements tubes are a bit cheaper than the install kit.
Seems odd your old brass ones were replaced by PVC.

Edited by - on

Boomeroo
Navigator

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Australia
129 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2010 : 21:58:33

I am very happy with my white Plastic 2 inch diam tubes
They don't corrode , they are cheap , Very very easy to replace and best of all, they are set in flush with the cockpit floor and slope down at the transom , thus they fully drain the floor.

Edited by - on

Tomas Kruska
Admiral

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Czech Republic
522 Posts

Response Posted - 11/26/2010 : 04:49:51

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Boomeroo
 I am very happy with my white Plastic 2 inch diam tubes
They don't corrode , they are cheap , Very very easy to replace and best of all, they are set in flush with the cockpit floor and slope down at the transom , thus they fully drain the floor.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

picture please

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 11/26/2010 : 09:54:04

The thin brass tubes on Passage had corroded through at their bottoms when I bought her in her 15th year... Acid rain, I supposed. I dabbed on some caulk to prevent leakage into the bilge, which it did.

At WM, I saw some plastic thru-hulls that had a flat, slightly flanged side--they looked like they were made precisely for the purpose. That would've been my next solution. Brass is the wrong material, just as it is for sink traps.

Edited by - on

Chris Z
Captain

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452 Posts

Response Posted - 11/26/2010 : 12:57:20

Has anyone thought about cutting the tubes out and cutting across to make one large slot across the back. I would think it would drain better, and allow leaves and such to flush right out. I would figure it could just be fiberglassed and enforced to maintain the proper strength.

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 11/26/2010 : 14:00:49

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Chris Z
 Has anyone thought about cutting the tubes out and cutting across to make one large slot across the back... I would figure it could just be fiberglassed and enforced to maintain the proper strength.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">My transom (1985) had a foam core between the inner and outer moldings. You would need to bridge that, probably with fiberglass. I'd look closely at how the cockpit sole is supported from below--the slot would reduce its support from the cockpit liner. I suspect that would be the only strength issue.

I currently have two 6" wide rectangular scuppers--they prevent clogging much better (and remove a lot of water in a hurry).

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5352 Posts

Response Posted - 11/26/2010 : 14:23:43

Has anybody on the forum ever been pooped by a big wave over the transom? How long did it take to clear the cockpit? Are larger scuppers justified?

Edited by - on

Tomas Kruska
Admiral

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Czech Republic
522 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2010 : 03:44:42

Has anyone bought this kit #D1953 from CD ?

I would like to have the dimentions of the tubes. Also why there are some square plywoods?
If anyone have that kit, can you copy me that instructions? I suppose they fix the tubes in the transom using polyurethane sealant.

I've found similar task done on C22 http://www.leachs.com/Scuppers.htm but when I read the words like silicon an liquid foam I closed the explorer immediately

Edited by - on

Boomeroo
Navigator

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Australia
129 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2010 : 04:24:05

Hi Tomas , The C22 attachment to your post is very easy and very similar to the drains in my C25 boats stern .
The epoxy will hold them perfectly.
Photo's into the forum is much harder than fitting the drains . I will keep trying
Graeme

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2010 : 06:46:32

Check [url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2623"]this link[/url] out Graeme

Edited by - on

Scooter
Navigator

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USA
228 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2010 : 07:00:01

I was thinking of replacing my brass ones with PVC tubes too. I want to get the tubes to the bottom of the "pocket" at the back of the cockpit so the "pocket" drains fully like Boomaroo mentions. It is a pain to always have a puddle in the cockpit. I also have to annually re-seal the brass ones because they seem to keep leaking.

Are there issues with this change?

What sealant/glue is best for pvc to fiberglass? Epoxy? 5200? Blood, sweat, and tears mixture?

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5895 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2010 : 08:22:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Voyager
 Has anybody on the forum ever been pooped by a big wave over the transom? How long did it take to clear the cockpit? Are larger scuppers justified?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I have been pooped over the transom, but not on a C25. It happened in 55-60 kt winds, and we shouldn't have been there. We were entering the Chesapeake Bay from a river, and I suggested we stay in the river and north of the storm and let the thunderhead pass south of us before we entered the Bay. The skipper didn't agree and so we sailed into the Bay and into the heart of a survival storm, where the boat was repeatedly pooped until we figured out a strategy to deal with the wind and waves. Even at that, the amount of water that actually entered the cockpit wasn't nearly enough to jeopardize the boat. The danger, as I saw it, wasn't so much that the cockpit would fill with water causing the boat to wallow. The danger was that a wave would knock the boat sideways to the waves, and that the next big wave would roll her over.

The point is that conditions have to be extremely rough before any appreciable amount of water is likely to enter the cockpit. If you get caught in those conditions, it isn't very likely that the boat will come to grief because the boat was pooped and the cockpit filled with water. It's more likely that the boat will roll over, and that will cause the cockpit to fill with water. If you can avoid rolling the boat over, you'll probably avoid the cockpit filling with water.

The solution is to avoid being in those conditions whenever possible. Don't get caught up in the temptation to tough it out through a survival storm. Find a sheltered place to anchor and play card games in the cabin until it passes over. The leading edge of most storms is the most dangerous part, and it will usually pass over in an hour or two. When it gets that rough, your good judgment will do more to protect you than a well designed, ruggedly built boat.

Edited by - on

tbosch
Navigator

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163 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2010 : 09:28:43

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I installed this kit on my 1980 C25. The square boards and the epoxy are used to fill the void between the transom and the cockpit. It is a bit of a challenge to get these "buttered" with thickened epoxy and placed properly. You epoxy them in place before drilling the holes. If you have place the wood in the right place then the holes you drill will go right through the middle of the squares. There are also some wooden shims in the kit that you use to get a snug fit. In my boat I had to do all of the work of getting the squares of wood epoxied in place from inside the quarter berth. That was a challenge!

Once the epoxy has set then you drill the holes for the scuppers. Hopefully the wood squares are in the right place and you have a nice solid tunnel through the transom with no voids. This is important with the metal tubes because the crimping tool really puts a lot of compression pressure on the transom. Without the wood epoxied in the void the cockpit wall and transom would pull towards each other.

You use the sealant to waterproof the metal tubes. They are held in place by the crimp. No need for epoxy for this.

I also had an issue with the crimping tool. One one side the handles of the tool hit the boarding ladder. I ended up swapping the components of the tool around and then turning the nut with a wrench.

I've got pictures that I took during the process if anyone is interested. I had planned to put together a tech tip article and never got around to it.

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2010 : 09:35:48

One of mine quit draining. I think it just has some junk clogged in it. I was wondering if I should try some Draino or something like that?

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pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2010 : 10:33:12

You must have the old type scuppers, I would go into the dumpster and remove and replace the hoses. Most of us had the direct scuppers that go straight through the transom. Some old ideas are really bad ideas, your forward drains are a very bad idea.

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PZell
Admiral

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USA
548 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2010 : 11:37:44

Chris Z - That is a project I have been meaning to get around to. There is an adjustable scupper about 6 inches wides that will fit from the cockpit sole out thru the stern. Look in chandler books under scuppers and you will probably find it. It is what I want to do before I take the boat out in the ocean here off San Francisco and down to Half Moon Bay. Quicker draining cockpit would ease my mind. Every so often a roque poops a sailboat around here.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4018 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2010 : 15:28:55

Like these...

http://www.westmarine.com/1/1/18562--push-together-scupper.html

http://www.westmarine.com/1/1/2560--adjustable-thru-hull-scupper.html

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5352 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2010 : 22:49:11

Steve
Thanks for your answer on getting pooped, as I was concerned about reducing the diameter of the opening slightly by using a liner tube from a plumbing supply store or the WM part.

Scott, I like your idea. It'll probably work fine. Do you have to remove the existing tubes before inserting the WM parts, or do you just slip them in?

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Tomas Kruska
Admiral

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Czech Republic
522 Posts

Response Posted - 12/23/2010 : 02:07:00

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by tbosch

I installed this kit on my 1980 C25.
...
I've got pictures that I took during the process if anyone is interested. I had planned to put together a tech tip article and never got around to it.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Thats interresting that the tubes are crimped, I was wandering what is that strange tool in the middle on the kit picture.

As this kit is too expensive to get it to EU, I'm going to do it another way.
I will fill the void between transom and cocpit, drill and then coat the inner hole with thickened epoxy or glass. I dont trust to any PVC on boat as the UV will do its own on that.

Thanks for hints.
If you have any photo its always better than thousand words.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4018 Posts

Response Posted - 12/23/2010 : 06:57:18

Bruce, I have not used these because my scuppers are still holding up but when they do fail it is the way I would probably go due to the simplicity of it. I would guess you remove the old brass ones, Cut the new ones to length then coat the male end of the tube and the inside of the hole with maybe 4200. Then coat both flanges with 4200 and slide them together in the hole and let it dry.

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Boomeroo
Navigator

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Australia
129 Posts

Response Posted - 12/24/2010 : 02:09:50

Hi, Tomas has the best idea because his scuppers will be able to fully drain the cockpit . The other systems have a flange which results in some water always in the cockpit . This then evaporates leaving salt or dirt etc ( Or wet feet /carpet) .
My PVC are many years old and still perfect ,,, and my previous boat ( a performance racing yacht ) was 15 yo in North Aust Sun and pvc scuppers were perfect.

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Boomeroo
Navigator

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Australia
129 Posts

Response Posted - 01/03/2011 : 03:20:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Tomas Kruska
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Boomeroo
 I am very happy with my white Plastic 2 inch diam tubes
They don't corrode , they are cheap , Very very easy to replace and best of all, they are set in flush with the cockpit floor and slope down at the transom , thus they fully drain the floor.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

picture please
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">well I will try but you may have to left Click on the red X go to properties and copy the address into the web to open the Photo and

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5352 Posts

Response Posted - 01/03/2011 : 16:03:45

Graeme,
Here's how to insert pictures into your posts.

Precede the photo's URL with the following string:

Start with the left bracket "[", then the word "img", then the right bracket "]".

Copy and paste the photo's URL to the right of the right bracket without a space,

Then follow the URL with the string: "[" "/img" "]".
Remove the spaces and the quotes.

Kinda klugey in a 1980's DOS sort of way.

I tried to copy and paste the image from the properties page:
http://www.shutterfly.com/lightbox/view.sfly?fid 08900329bb2025dc0031ecd658bfd733

But Shutterfly asked me to set up an account. I thought the URL would get me straight in......
Bruce

Edited by - Voyager on 01/03/2011 16:08:32

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