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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Repair old engine or buy new?

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Slingerland
1st Mate

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USA
96 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/26/2010 : 18:04:01

This is really just thinking out loud...

This morning we took Novia out for a sail (our 3rd time taking her out.) Since the wind was higher than we've sailed in before, I kept Novia on outboard power. It was a great training exercise: my wife and my 14 year old took turns at the helm, learning how the breeze would affect to boat in a turn.

But besides toodling around the lake, we also had a problem: the outboard engine won't idle (dies.) The engine is a Mercury 2-stroke 5 HP, and when the previous owner bought the boat 5+ years ago the engine was used.

I spoke with "Cap'n Chuck" for a while this evening, and we both think the problem is a clogged low-idle jet on the carb. He's offered to drop by the boat and tinker with the engine (which I happily accepted) but to be honest, we both think it probably will need to be taken to the shop.

Which begs the question: given the amount of additives in today's gasoline, given this is a two stroke engine, and given the problems others are posting about ethanol/gasoline and their older outboards, perhaps I should consider changing engines?

I have found a place in Tennessee that sells Tohatsu engines. A 5 HP is under $1300, with free ground shipping and a 3 year warranty. I'll call my Mercury boat engine dealer tomorrow to see what their shop rate is, but if the carb rebuild is going to cost a couple of hundred bucks, jumping to a new engine is tempting to me. ESPECIALLY having an engine under warranty!

Has anybody else given up their 2 cycle due to gas and repairs?

Howard Warren
Little Rock, AR
1979 C-25 #1435, "Novia"

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2010 : 18:20:15

If that place is OnLine Outboards, members get an additional discount - check the "Links". Keep in mind that you want a long shaft at least, and most of us use extra long shaft motors. On the repair side, no 4 stroke is as light, simple and durable as a 2 stroke, and 2 strokes, if you change to alcohol tolerant fuel lines, are much less picky about what fuel you use. On the downside, no 2 stroke is as clean, fuel efficient and quiet as a 4 stroke.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2010 : 18:25:32

Before you do anythign expensive, go and buy a can of carb cleaner.

Dump about 1/4 cup of it into the fuel tank.

Run the engine for a while.

See if it makes a difference. It did for me.

I have about $600 (+/-) into my engine in repairs. The shop liked me lots. Then I figured out a couple tweaks this season, adn have it running on the first or second pull every time. How rich is your idle set? How fast is it running?

Alternatively, do you have all the features you want in your engine? Is it sized right for your conditions? Has marketing got a hold on you and you just have to have this year's make/model?

Just things to think about.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2010 : 18:45:05

If you have any mechanical skills at all buy a shop manual for your motor, pull the carb off, disassemble, soak in carb cleaner then blow air through every orifice in it, put in a rebuild kit, reassemble, and go sailing. There's not that much to a carb on a 2 cycle.

If you just totally screw it up, go buy the new motor. You already have in your mind.

Might as well give the rebuild a shot.

Edited by - GaryB on 09/26/2010 18:45:49

Slingerland
1st Mate

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USA
96 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2010 : 19:51:39

Dave, it is indeed OnLine Outboards, and the discount is certainly worth the price of Association membership... so I paid my membership tonight (grin).

I'll run some carb cleaner through it. As far as mechanical, I used to restore Alfa Romeos, but it's been well over 10 years since working on the SPICA fuel injection system (grin). I can probably find a shop manual and try to rebuild a carb, but the biggest problem I have is a place to do it and time to do it. The day job is ramping up for a 2 week trip to Atlanta, and 14 hour days two weeks before and after. By the time I get back, it will be getting too cold to sail much.

Maybe best is to try and limp through the rest of the season, pull the motor around Thanksgiving, tinker through the winter. But I still have the issue of where to work on it... I don't have any way to run the engine at my house, and it's pretty heavy. (That begs the question, HOW to get it off the boat... boat's in the water, no trailer... but I have a couple of ideas on that involving the mast winch.)

Edited by - on

Tomas Kruska
Admiral

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Czech Republic
522 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2010 : 04:23:02

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Slingerland
I have found a place in Tennessee that sells Tohatsu engines. A 5 HP is under $1300, with free ground shipping and a 3 year warranty. I'll call my Mercury boat engine dealer tomorrow to see what their shop rate is, but if the carb rebuild is going to cost a couple of hundred bucks, jumping to a new engine is tempting to me. ESPECIALLY having an engine under warranty!

Has anybody else given up their 2 cycle due to gas and repairs?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Tohatsu and Mercury is the same motor just the Tohatsu is cheaper because its their original design. Mercury in this power range is only the reseller with different label and color.

I have two-stroke Mercury 5HP from 2004 and my brother the same Tohatsu 5HP. 100% of the parts are the same except the logo.

Also replacing 5year old motor just to have a 3 year warranty is not a good idea.
To keep that 3 year warranty, you will have to service it in the authorized dealer witch will costs you $$$.
I think that 2-stroke engine build after 2000 is the best one in terms of weight and power and maintenance fee. Really easy to fix it.

The problem with 2-stroke engines here in Czech Republic is that you can't register this engine with any boat so you can only keep it (if you already have it registered) until you buy a new one.
Bad thing is that due the EU directives you are not able to buy any new 2-stroke engine anymore. Out of production since 2008.

PS: I love the smell of 2-stroke engine

Edited by - Tomas Kruska on 09/27/2010 04:26:13

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2010 : 05:47:06

Removing the engine... Back the boat up to a dock, undo the screws holding it on the bracket, lift. Some folks tie a line on it for extra security. I guess you need a good back to do that though.

Rinnung it at home... Some folks use the earmuffs. I don't have those. I set the OB up on a frame of 2X4's over a clean plastic (Rubbermaid) trashcan. When teh trashcan isn't being used as a test tank it is storing bulky boat stuff. Worst case scenario is that teh prop slices the trashcan, but that is pretty unlikely, and hasn't happened yet. If it did, it wouldn't take much to reach over and kill the OB. Besides, you only need to run it in Neutral to find out if your problem is gone.

Oh, and somehow these problems seem to go away when the motor is off the boat, and return as soon as the OB touches lakewater.

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2010 : 06:24:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> Oh, and somehow these problems seem to go away when the motor is off the boat, and return as soon as the OB touches lakewater. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

When the foot of your outboard is in the lake and not a bucket the back pressure on the exhaust is different as well as the force required to suck water for the coolant system and makes your motor run different. So when tuning the air/fuel mixture it needs to be in the lake

Edited by - DaveR on 09/27/2010 06:26:39

Slingerland
1st Mate

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USA
96 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2010 : 06:40:24

I wish I could find a fuel-injected, 5 HP outboard with automatic choke (sigh).

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2010 : 10:08:34

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by DaveR
 When the foot of your outboard is in the lake and not a bucket the back pressure on the exhaust is different as well as the force required to suck water for the coolant system and makes your motor run different. So when tuning the air/fuel mixture it needs to be in the lake

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Not sure if you are kidding or not - but in any case, if he is checking his idle, wouldn't the pressure etc. be the same? The water in the bucket won't even be moving.

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2010 : 14:07:15

Your 2-stroke Merc 5 hp shouldn't weigh more than about 50 lbs, probably around 45 lbs. If you can back the boat into the slip, bringing the motor close to the dock, it shouldn't be too hard. I put on and removed a 5 hp 4-stroke Merc that way. Best to have someone on hand to help, if needed.

Edited by - on

Slingerland
1st Mate

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USA
96 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2010 : 15:39:47

I'll make sure nobody has a camcorder... no reason to embarrass myself more...

Another question... can I lay the motor on its side for transport? I have a Chevy HHR, not a truck.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2010 : 15:53:56

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Slingerland
 ...can I lay the motor on its side for transport?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Yup--or even upside-down. I'll suggest running the carb dry first... Only the 4-strokes are sensitive to lying down, because of the oil sump. (Most can be laid on one side but not the other.)

Edited by - on

Slingerland
1st Mate

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USA
96 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2010 : 18:15:41

I've been quoted $95 plus parts for a carb rebuild. Given my work schedule, that's not bad. I'll be traveling to Atlanta for 10 days in October, I'll drop off the engine on the way to the airport!

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2010 : 19:31:58

Good choice, that's what I did one year in Pensacola. I knew exactly what the problem was, but I had limited tools and was not sure where to get parts; the $100 solution was my wise choice at the time. I had the motor back in 2 days and enjoyed a fine winter sailing season.

Edited by - on

CharF
Deckhand

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USA
13 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2010 : 07:23:53

A friend of mine had a 2-stroke and told me he has having problems with it. I went over to his boat, popped the spark plug out, cleaned it and popped it back in fixing his problem. Spark plugs fowl very easily on 2-strokes. Start with the easiest and cheapest fixes first and work your way to the more difficult and expensive fixes.

If you do buy a new motor, that will give you more opportunity to fix this one. I fixed my old motor after buying a new one. Somebody stole my new motor and I ended up needing my old motor again.

Edited by - on

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