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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Help me identify the "mystery accessory" switch

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TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/10/2010 : 20:16:31

I did some work behind my 12v electrical panel today, and was wondering if other C250 owners could help solve a mystery. The top part of my boat's electrical panel is devoted to lights, and the bottom part has three "accessory" switches. The bottom two switches are hand-labeled "VHF Radio/Stereo" and "Depth/Auto Pilot." Third from the bottom is unlabeled (just the generic "accessory" engraving), and does not appear to control anything. But when I go inside the panel, it is clear that there is a wire connected to this switch. I cannot figure out what that wire goes to.

I would greatly appreciate any of your guesses on what this might be, using your knowledge of your own C250.

Let me eliminate a couple of things for you:

<ul><li>There are 2 12v sockets on the boat. Both are wired to the "VHF Radio/Stereo" circuit</li><li>The LPG solenoid appears to be wired into the panel master breaker. It works even if all the circuits are shut off.</li><li>Likewise, the stereo's memory wire appears to go directly to the master breaker.</li><li>The binnacle compass light is controlled by the running light switch.</li></ul>

One thing I just thought of is the ignitor on the burner. Next time I go to the boat I'll have to see if the accessory switch controls that.

Meanwhile, any other ideas of what the 3rd switch from the bottom controls? What does it control on your boat?

Rick S., Swarthmore, PA
PO of Take Five, 1998 Catalina 250WK #348 (relocated to Baltimore's Inner Harbor)
New owner of 2001 Catalina 34MkII #1535 Breakin' Away (at Rock Hall Landing Marina)

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Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 07/10/2010 : 21:25:14

Igniter on the burner.

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 07/11/2010 : 09:03:39

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nautiduck
 Igniter on the burner.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Confirmed it today. Thanks!

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 07/11/2010 : 11:35:56

While we are on that subject, as I mentioned above, on my boat the LPG solenoid is hot-wired, bypassing any of the panel switches. Since this solenoid is fail-closed (i.e., always closed unless energized), is there any reason not to wire it onto the same accessory switch as the ignitor? It seems that any time I want to use the sparker I would also want to open the solenoid, so it would be natural to combine them on one switch. This would also help prevent accidentally leaving the solenoid on, which could unnecessarily drain the battery.

How are your boats wired? Is the solenoid always hot, or is it wired into an accessory switch?

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John Russell
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Response Posted - 07/11/2010 : 13:10:58

I killed an old, tiring battery a couple of weeks ago by doing just that. I left the solenoid energized while away from the boat for a week. However, I like the failsafe of having separate circuits.

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 07/11/2010 : 13:29:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 I killed an old, tiring battery a couple of weeks ago by doing just that. I left the solenoid energized while away from the boat for a week. However, I like the failsafe of having separate circuits.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
John,

I had remembered your post on the subject, but didn't have time to hunt around for it again to quote it in my prior message. But I am curious about your preference for separate circuits. On my boat the solenoid is not on a separate circuit - it's wired directly into the master, bypassing all of the switches. This is inviting just the problem that you had. It seems to me that if the solenoid is closed when unpowered, then the safest thing is to have it unpowered as much as possible, i.e., wired into one of the switches on the control panel. That way, when you leave the boat and routinely check that all the switches are off, you can be sure that even if you left the little lighted switch on in the aft berth, the solenoid will still be unpowered. And you will never turn it on unless you need it (and the ignitor at the same time).

Strictly speaking, none of these items is on a separate "circuit" anyway. They all go through the same master 20a breaker - at least that's the way my panel is wired. There are two breakers, but they are cascaded in series. The master wire from the battery goes to the first one, which feeds the switches for the lights and a second breaker in parallel. Then the second breaker feeds the switches for the accessories.

I would appreciate if someone here could confirm that your breakers and switches are wired in the same way. It's possible that someone did some aftermarket modifications on my boat. The more I think about it, the whole wiring arrangement does not make sense. Why would you put two identically sized breakers in series, with lights going through just the first breaker, and all the other accessories going through both? It might make sense if the second breaker was smaller, but identical breakers seems odd.

Edited by - TakeFive on 07/14/2010 18:58:23

jbkayaker
Captain

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Response Posted - 07/11/2010 : 14:30:14

Ignitor ? There's an ignitor for the burner ? I have been using long matches.

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britinusa
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Response Posted - 07/11/2010 : 15:48:01

Now you guys have me thinking!
The ignitor on our C250 princess stove does not work, never thought to check if it's electric, I assumed it was piezoelectric.

Paul

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Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 07/11/2010 : 17:09:38

Push the knob in and it sparks. It is not like the starter on a Weber, just hold it in and it keeps sparking.

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 07/14/2010 : 18:47:42

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by RhythmDoctor
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 I killed an old, tiring battery a couple of weeks ago by doing just that. I left the solenoid energized while away from the boat for a week. However, I like the failsafe of having separate circuits.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
...Strictly speaking, none of these items is on a separate "circuit" anyway. They all go through the same master 20a breaker - at least that's the way my panel is wired. There are two breakers, but they are cascaded in series. The master wire from the battery goes to the first one, which feeds the switches for the lights and a second breaker in parallel. Then the second breaker feeds the switches for the accessories.

I would appreciate if someone here could confirm that your breakers and switches are wired in the same way. It's possible that someone did some aftermarket modifications on my boat. The more I think about it, the whole wiring arrangement does not make sense. Why would you put two breakers in series, with lights going through just the first breaker, and all the other accessories going through both?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I spoke to Warren at the Florida plant and he made some sense of all of this. He said that the current C250 panels (which have probably not changed from the ones on my boat) leave the factory with identical switches to mine, with the 5 light switches connected to a 20A ETA circuit breaker via a non-insulated hard wire just like mine. There is also a non-insulated wire connecting the 3 accessory switches, but no circuit breaker - just a hole where a circuit breaker can be attached. After some discussion we surmised that Catalina cannot properly size a second breaker because they do not know what accessories the dealer will add. So it appears that it is the dealer's responsibility to install an appropriately sized circuit breaker based on the accessories that have been ordered for commissioning.

So it appears that the dealer selected a 20A breaker and decided to cascade it off the other 20A breaker. After reflecting on this, I do not think this was dealer incompetence - but maybe a little laziness or thriftiness. The master wires between the battery and the panel are only 10 gauge - a little small to carry more than 20 amps for the ~12 foot run. After consulting some AWG websites I doubt it would be a major safety issue, but more of a performance issue due to voltage drop. So wiring the two 20A breakers in parallel would not be appropriate without a larger or supplemental wire to the battery. Of course, even with a big wire, 40A would draw down a little #24 battery pretty fast, but it might be nice to have in case of an emergency (albeit a short-term emergency

). So now I have yet another thing to add to my list.

I went back down to the boat today and confirmed that the LPG solenoid is directly wired to the always-hot side of the circuit breaker (piggy-backed on the master line in the panel). Since it has its own 5A circuit breaker, this is not unsafe - although it does create the possibility that you can draw 25A off the battery through the 10 gauge wire. I went ahead and moved this wire to the "mystery switch" (3rd one up from the bottom) that also controls the ignitor. I just can't see any reason not to do this, since I would never use one without the other. If the solenoid's amp draw kicks out the 20A breaker, I'll turn something else off while I'm using the LPG (which will be extremely rarely). With this configuration I am far less likely to ever suffer the same fate that John described.

Edited by - TakeFive on 07/19/2010 18:42:44

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