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Rigging asymmetrical spinnaker

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James Simmons
1st Mate

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USA
41 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/04/2010 : 09:06:10

I am about to add an asymmetrical spinnaker to my sail inventory. I have a 1981 C25 Standard Rig/Fixed keel with a 155 roller furling headsail. I have added a block to the top of the mast along with a spinnaker halyard which I am able to run back to the cockpit. My concern is with the tack connection for the spinnaker. The only place to tie the tack line on seems to be the three holes located behind the point where the roller furling drum is attached. Any tack line would necessarily rub against the drum when the sail is flying. I am sure someone has figured this out and would appreciate any suggestions on how to rig the tack short of adding a sprit to the bow.

Thanks!

Edited by - on

skrenz
Captain

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USA
351 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2010 : 10:42:36

I have the exact same setup as you have and rigged the asymmetrical spinnaker that came with my boat for the first time last summer. To answer your question specifically, essentially yes, the tack line rubs against the furling drum but it seems to make little difference for all intents and purposes. Mostly because you fly the asymmetrical spinnaker a good four feet above the stem head. Sure, a sprit would be superior, as all documentation says because it moves the spinnaker out away from the body of the boat and the furled jib, but it is not necessary. If you figure one out, let me and all of us know. How much difference it would actually make I don't know either.

More important I found was how to figure out deploying the spinnaker and rigging the tack line back to the cockpit. The tack line I found needs to be adjustable because it will effect the shape of the sail along with the sheets. So what you really need is a block attached to the stem fitting and the tack line running back to a cleat in/near the cockpit. I set mine up using the same type of fair-leads I used for my furling line only on the other side of the boat - port in my case. These were Spinlock Furling Leads WL/1 and WL/2. They work great. I also installed a cleat for the line on the side of the cockpit.

You will also need to install new sheet blocks at the stern. I tried a couple of different configurations but concluded that adjustable jib blocks on the 1" track all the way at the end were the best solution. I then lead the sheets to the jib winches. Yes, you will need to use the winch on the sheets.

Most importantly I found that you really need to think through just how you are going to deploy this monster without getting every line forward of the hatch tangled together. This is actually more difficult than you might think. My solution is to mount the sail bag with the spinnaker in it onto the bow pulpit in front of the jib making sure that the sheets and tack line are laid into the bag appropriately. It's then an easy job to send one crew forward to grab the dousing sock line - I use a dousing sock, works great - while another raises the spinnaker out of the bag with the halyard from the cockpit. Once the spinnaker is raised out of its bag, all of the lines are in the proper position and the forward crew has only to raise the sock to unfold the spinnaker and cleat it to a cleat on the mast. Dousing is just as simple. You pull down the sock and drop the spinnaker back into the bag attached and open on the pulpit. All the lines will remain in the proper place.

I have never run into a situation where the sail bag for the spinnaker is in the way of the jib or anything else when attached to the bow pulpit. I attach the sail bag to the pulpit pretty stoutly so that there is no chance of loosing it to some rouge wave over the bow. Obviously in heavy weather you wouldn't be using the assym anyways so you can always detach the bag and bring it below if necessary.

Good luck to you. I'm still learning how to fly and adjust the asymmetrical spinnaker. I was amazed to be able to almost tack with the thing, at least the way mine is cut. I can say this, deployed its like shifting into another gear down wind.

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2010 : 16:12:25

Steve your comments raise a couple of questions. I, like James, just acquired an asymmetrical. If the sail is flown four feet above the stem head would it be possible to attach it to a pendant connected to the bow pulpit and adjust it by adjusting the halyard rather than a tack line? I raised mine New Years Day and attached the tack to the pulpit just so I could see it fill and was wondering why that could not be a permanent solution.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2010 : 22:21:47

I don't think you want to put that much load on the bow pulpit. If you have an anchor bow roller, run the asym tack line through that.

Edited by - on

James Simmons
1st Mate

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USA
41 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2010 : 09:39:04

Steve,

A very helpful, well thought out reply!

Thanks!

Edited by - on

skrenz
Captain

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USA
351 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2010 : 09:48:23

Joe,
As DaveP said, I wouldn't want to put that kind of load on the bow pulpit. Also, not very "yachty". But the real problem is that when you adjust the tack line you aren't just moving the sail up and down. You are also moving it in and out which adjusting the halyard will not influence. Also, I suspect it would be a major pain. No, I'm afraid you need to have the tack adjustable.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5895 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2010 : 13:29:53

There are 2 main ways that you can rig an assym., but there are lots of minor variations. You can attach the tack aft of the headstay, and run the sheets so that you fly it and tack it or gybe it inside the foretriangle, like a jib, or you can attach the tack forward of the headstay, and run the sheets so that you fly it and gybe it outside the foretriangle, like a symmetrical spinnaker. Most people rig theirs in the latter manner, and that's the way I have mine rigged on my present boat, a C&C 35. I've never rigged an assym the other way, but many people have said that doing so chafes the sail at it's head. The thought of tacking an assym inside the headstay seems to me to present a substantial risk of snagging the light fabric sail on the rigging during a tack, ripping it.

When you rig it so that it tacks and gybes forward of the headstay, the sheets have to be run like spinnaker sheets, with both sheets long enough so that they can be led forward, around the headstay, and then back to the cockpit.

I also use a spinnaker snuffer, and it makes it easy to fly the cruising chute singlehanded.

Instead of running the sheets through a block on the genoa track, I run mine through a snatchblock, attached to each stern dock cleat with a loop of line. You can buy about a 15" loop of 3/8" line from a chandlery, that is especially made for that purpose. The cost is about $60.00. I tied a $5.00 piece of 7/16" line into a loop ( 3/8" is big enough for the C25.), and it works fine. After passing through the snatchblock, the sheet is led forward to the primary winch.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2010 : 14:09:14

If you have an anchor roller on the boat, the pin at the front end makes a perfect spot for attaching your tackline block out ahead of the forestay. That is what I do. The tackline is led back to the cockpit. If you want the sail to perform, the tackline needs to be easily adjustable. Ease the tackline for a big deep, full, downwind shape and harden it up to point. Mine is lead to a jamb cleat on the cabin top.

If you don't have the anchor roller, I'd install one. Very good addition to the boat for more than just the asym.

Edited by - on

Dave Otey
Navigator

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USA
112 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2010 : 17:04:31

I received an Aspin (asymmetrical spinnaker)from a friend last year and subsequently I too am investigating the rigging options. While doing the research I have come across a few references that may be of interest. (see below) The commentary regarding the height of the tack and it's impact on the stability of the vessel is interesting.

My concern is getting the block at the masthead far enough out in front of the forestay to avoid any wrapping or chaffing. An option is to attach a masthead crane to the masthead and mount the Aspin halyard block to the crane. Does anyone have a recommendation to getting the spinnaker halyard block well in front of the forestay?

http://www.fxsails.com/spinnarticle2.php
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/doityourself/spinnaker/spinnaker.htm
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance-articles/19794-using-asymmetrical-spinnaker.html

Edited by - on

skrenz
Captain

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USA
351 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2010 : 11:39:17

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Dave Otey</i>
My concern is getting the block at the masthead far enough out in front of the forestay to avoid any wrapping or chaffing. An option is to attach a masthead crane to the masthead and mount the Aspin halyard block to the crane. Does anyone have a recommendation to getting the spinnaker halyard block well in front of the forestay?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I have not found this to be a problem. I presently have my roller reefing genoa on the jib halyard which threads through the sheaves at the mast head and the spinnaker halyard threads through a block attached at the top of the mast which I think is pretty typical. When the spinnaker is flying, the top is actually pulling out from the mast and not down the mast. As such it is pulling away from the jib halyard.
Now I will say that one time I got the spinnaker tangled up in the jib, but that was because I tried to roll in the jib while the spinnaker was flopping around

But this was just a dumb move. If you roll up the jib first and then fly the spinnaker, you shouldn't have this problem.

Edited by - on

Dave Otey
Navigator

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USA
112 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2010 : 18:50:45

Thanks Steve. I have another question. Has anyone used their internal genoa / jib halyard ( assuming a CDI furler is used for the headsail) as the spinnaker halyard? If so, please explain how the internal jib halyard is routed from the masthead to the head of the spinnaker. If tried without success I'd appreciate that input as well. I am trying to avoid adding another halyard if I can get by with the internal solution.
Fairwinds, Dave

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5895 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2010 : 10:03:13

Dave, I have seen one boat that was rigged so that the cruising chute is tacked and gybed inside the foretriangle. It can be done, but is almost never done. When I rigged my present boat for a cruising chute, I tried it that way, and immediately understood why nobody does it that way. The head of the sail rubs on the rigging when you tack or gybe, and, the relatively fragile sailcloth is susceptible to snagging on the rigging as it passes through the foretriangle.

The recommended way to rig the boat for either type of spinnaker is with the halyard slightly forward of the headstay. The tack of the spinnaker is also attached at a point forward of the headstay. When you tack or gybe either type of spinnaker, the sail crosses forward of the headstay (i.e., outside of the foretriangle,instead of inside it.)

We previously discussed this, and the following hyperlink will take you to that discussion. Especially read the fourth reply, by John P, who provided pictures.

http://catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=19352& SearchTerms=cruising

Edited by - Steve Milby on 01/07/2010 10:07:32

Dave Otey
Navigator

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USA
112 Posts

Response Posted - 01/08/2010 : 06:35:40

Thanks Steve M.. I reviewed the link you provided and your explanation answered my questions. My furler is attached to the inside pin and the outside pin is available to attach a spinnaker halyard block.

To further the discussion, I am also looking into appropriate blocks. What I don't know is the working loads for the following:

a. spinnaker halyard block
b. spinnaker tack block
c. tack line/sheet cleat. I plan to use a position on one of my triple Spinlock clutches for the tack line.
d. load on stern turning blocks. Also, are the stern pulpit stantions substantial enough to mount these blocks? I'd like to elevate the turning block plane enough to clear the step between the stern and the primary winches to avoid a friction point between the stern blocks and the primary winches. ('91 trfk)

As always, input is greatly appreciated.

Fairwinds, Dave

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5895 Posts

Response Posted - 01/08/2010 : 08:08:20

When I was rigging my boat for a spinnaker, I asked all those same questions about working loads to the guys at Annapolis Performance Sailing, tel. 800/729.9767 (email address - sail@apsltd.com) Their employees are racing sailors, and their prices on the blocks that I needed were generally a little better than most.

I wouldn't attach the spinnaker blocks to the stern pulpit. The pulpit isn't designed for such loads. I'm fairly sure it isn't reinforced with backing plates. If you would get a gust strong enough to broach the boat, the load on the spinn sheet attachment would be considerable.

That's why the snatch blocks are frequently attached to the dock cleats. You know they're sturdy enough for the task. If you attach the snatch blocks to the aft dock cleats, you can make the length of the line loops long enough so that the block is forward of the step. To protect the gel coat on the step, you can attach a stainless steel rub strake to each step. See the following hyperlink:

http://images.westmarine.com/full/179390.jpg

Edited by - Steve Milby on 01/08/2010 08:45:55

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