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AC Power issue

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mlally
Deckhand

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USA
11 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/10/2009 : 14:39:43

I just connected a 30 amp cord to shore power the cord is powered up because a light glowing but im not getting any power in the boat,

What should I be checking out to see solve this?

Salem Mark

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4018 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2009 : 14:45:47

Is the AC switch (Shore Power) inside the cabin next to the 12 volt breaker panel in the on position?

Edited by - on

mlally
Deckhand

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USA
11 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2009 : 14:56:37

there is a switch, is the on position to the left or right

if i try switching back and forth nothing happens, shouldnt the light turn on?

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2009 : 15:02:14

I believe it is a breaker and could be bad.

The new ones look beefier
http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=1746

Edited by - pastmember on 11/10/2009 15:04:54

mlally
Deckhand

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USA
11 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2009 : 15:08:19

so i need to buy another one? or how do i test to see if it is the breaker

Im not an electrician

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2009 : 15:09:30

You should add your boat year and where you sail to your sig, it helps people know what you are looking at and whether you are salt water or fresh. Above is a late model boat. Most were like this.

It is always good to replace things like this with new parts.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4018 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2009 : 15:16:24

In my boat, On would be to the right but I had to replace the switch(breaker) when I bought my boat. The P.O never used the shore power and the switch had gone bad from non use. If you have a test lamp (115 volt) see if you have power to the back of the switch. Then with the switch in the on position see if you have power coming out of the switch. If there is power in but no power out the switch is

bad. You will need to get a 30 amp breaker, about $15-$25.

Edited by - islander on 11/10/2009 15:47:48

skrenz
Captain

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USA
351 Posts

Response Posted - 11/11/2009 : 09:20:15

Here is a related question somewhat off the original subject. What amperage is the breaker in the boat? One might think that this would be a 30 amp breaker given that it is attached to a cord rated at 30 amps and plugged into a receptical, maybe, also at 30 amps.
But if this is a 30 amp breaker, than how can the outlets be the normal "household" configuration 20 amp outlets? What about the gauge of the wire? I see this same configuration of a single master switch without any secondary circuit breakers all over the place but can't figure this out from an electrician's perspective.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3758 Posts

Response Posted - 11/11/2009 : 18:20:04

A conundrum! A single 30 means you can overload one circuit, 2 twenties can overload the whole system, and 2 fifteens prevents you from max loading either circuit. I guess you could do parallel twenties in series with a thirty, or you could hope that the shorepower supply would trip. I am thinking of going with the serial/parallel approach when I redo mine and add a third circuit.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5352 Posts

Response Posted - 11/11/2009 : 20:47:10

Going back to Salem Mark's question, there's an interesting blurb in the Catalina direct description of the circuit breaker "This double pole breaker is the AC master breaker used on most Catalinas. In fact, due to to ABYC (American Boat and Yacht Council) requirements, many boats have two of these breakers, one on the master panel and another on a small panel near the power inlet. The small panel eliminates an unprotected run of wire from the inlet to the master panel. It is typically found inside an aft locker, tucked up high and out of the weather as much as possible."

Could it be that Salem Mark's "other breaker" has failed? You might want to check . . . .

Now back to off topic:
Passage has three two outlet receptacles, so thoretically, I could plug in six 15 amp appliances into it. The breaker would blow in about a millisecond. Since the dock supplies 30A with the standard plug and 50A with an adaptor, many of the circuit breakers max out somewhere around 20-30A. That would depend on your particular (a) circuit breaker, (b) your wire guage (#14-3 carries 15A while #12-3 carries 20A) and (c) the power coming out of the dock connector.

In fact, I never use shore power because I don't need one. I don't have an A/C battery charger, an electric coffee pot, an ice maker or an air conditioner. If I need 120 VAC, I use a 400W inverter (roughly 120VAC @ 3.6 A max). I use it to power my 100W FM radio/receiver for music, my 90W laptop power supply and my 13W compact fluorescent (CFL) work light. I've got a lot of 12V appliances like

I have the inverter connected to the circuit breaker and from there I plug my appliances into the 120 VAC receptacles. I keep the breaker in place because it is a voltage reversal breaker too. If somehow the hot and neutral get switched, it will open up and not work. Thus it can save you from a nasty shock.

Edited by - on

Tom Gauntt
Navigator

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204 Posts

Response Posted - 11/11/2009 : 22:41:25

Do you have a GFCI receptacle in the mix somewhere?

I added AC shore power to "Lil" primarily to keep the batteries topped off and to provide a back power source to the electric bilge pump. Having spent a couple of years as an Electrician's Apprentice, I learned enough to know that you can really kill yourself with electricity. You can do it even easier around water. Be careful!

The first receptacle in my AC circuit is a GCFI receptacle. If the GFCI trips, the AC is still powered and the AC Breaker switch still glows red, but the outlets are dead through the circuit.

It might be that simple.

Replacing a plug is very straightforward. Remember, safety first. Disconnect the shorepower cord from the pedestal. Do NOT rely on the AC breaker in the boat to protect you.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3440 Posts

Response Posted - 11/12/2009 : 04:28:56

Tom,

1-2 years ago, I installed GFCI Outlets and then some time later when I was planning on doing an overnighter, I wanted to ensure a portable heater would work off my outlet and it didn't. I was checking the shore power circuit and then my system and could not figure it out until I realized that I had inadvertently left the outlets off and just pressed the reset button and everything was then okay. So, your suggestion is something that was wise to mention....just that this thread has been going on for awhile, so I figured the solution could not be this simple for resolving this thread. Still...glad you mentioned it. It is something that should at least be checked off as not the cause.

Edited by - OLarryR on 11/12/2009 04:30:20

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/12/2009 : 07:26:38

I was thinking the same thing... I don't think GFIs were common in boats back in the '70s and '80s, but there should be one in very shorepower circuit on any boat--as the first outlet in a parallel string of outlets. Passage didn't have one, but like Bruce, I never used the shore power.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5352 Posts

Response Posted - 11/12/2009 : 19:26:02

Dave,
Since I do use the AC circuit with the 120 VAC inverter, I will put in a GFCI to prevent any potential gotchas.

Edited by - on

mlally
Deckhand

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USA
11 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2009 : 13:32:58

i replaced the 30amp breaker/switch with a new identical one,

still no power, i checked the wiring on panel everything is tight, no corrosion

what next?

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2009 : 14:20:19

Use a voltage tester or meter and check the voltage at the power cable. Then short the hot and neutral pins of the boat receptacle together so you can test the circuit. Use a volt-ohm meter (you can buy a cheap one from $10 and up - they usually get more durable and more accurate as the price goes up, but you don't really need an expensive one. I keep a $12 Walmart special on the boat and only take my expensive digital aboard for specific issues.). Be sure the circuitbreaker is off (open circuit), then start checking resistance and verify that hot and neutral are correct at each checkpoint. Begin where the boat wiring connects to the back of the shore power receptacle; the next available spot will probable be the input pins on the back of the breaker. Close the breaker (on) and check the output pins. Check the in cabin receptacles. Your failure will be between the first open circuit (very high resistance) and the last checkpoint that had a near zero reading. As you test, don't try to anticipate what the problem is, just be methodical and collect data - the data will give you the answer. While it is most often a problem in the connections, it can easily be a failed shore power receptacle or a broken wire.

edit: the "L" shaped pin or blade is ground; the other two are hot and neutral

Edited by - Dave5041 on 11/13/2009 14:31:36

mlg3733
Navigator

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118 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2009 : 14:28:03

I am going to sound silly and someone else asked already, but do you have any receptacles in the cabin? I have a shore power breaker installed in my boat by a previous owner but nothing else: no wiring, lights or outlets.

Edited by - on

mlally
Deckhand

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USA
11 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2009 : 14:48:13

yes i have outets,

i can see the wiring in the aft locker

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4018 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2009 : 16:16:05

OK, I would now say your problem is somewhere between the shore power inlet and the switch. I would carefully look at all of the wire connections starting from the back of the shore power inlet. These wires will be Green,Black, White. Look for ANY corrosion or broken wire. Then follow the wires, the green and white will go to a buss bar, The black will go to the switch that you just replaced. Again remove the connections on the buss bar, clean them up, look for broken or loose terminals etc.Check the buss bar, Good and clean or corrosion. Clean it or replace it if any doubt. The green and white will now go from the buss bar to your outlets. There will be 2 greens and 2 whites for 2 outlets. Now check the back of the outlets you will see the green and white wires and also a black wire. The black wire is coming from the switch. Make sure all connections are good and all terminals are good and tight on the wires. Oh, The little light under the switch is a reverse polarity light, It should never come on unless there is a problem with the docks shore power wiring.
Just an after thought, Do you have access to another shore power cord? It could be just as simple as a bad cord.

Edited by - islander on 11/13/2009 17:42:44

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