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Rain Leaks?

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hinmo
Navigator

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USA
248 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/12/2009 : 13:25:09

Folks - I have noticed water in the bilge after rain storms while Kukla was on the mooring. I assumed it was the windows, as I see traces of intrusion. But, with the boat now on the hard in my side yard, I checked today during a hard rain. One window is dripping slightly, but would not account for an inch or so in the bilge (as a matter of fact, the bilge is dry and its been raining for almost 24 hrs).

I searched around and could not find other sources. Note - on the mooring, its only after rain storms that I get the bilge water, other times, its dry.

The only other variable, is on the mooring its always facing into the wind. On the hard, its fixed direction.

Got any ideas?

(ps - the anchor locker is full of water, does that have a drain somewhere?)

Thanks

"Kukla" '83 FK,SR

Edited by - on

Dustysailz
1st Mate

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USA
85 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2009 : 15:27:36

Hello. I had this very same problem. If your anchor locker is filling with rain water it will drain into the v-berth through the conduit for the bow lights on the port side. My problem was self created. I had a drain hole which I plugged as I thought it was needed at the time. It then created water in the cabin. It took awhile, but the leak was traced out. Earlier this year, I put the drain hole back in, made certain it was lined(a plastic tube was placed into the drilled hole and sealed). My anchor locker has since been dry as has the cabin sole! Look inside the anchor locker in the very front. You may find that a P.O. did exactly what I did(which was meant to solve another problem). Good luck and stay dry.

Edited by - on

hinmo
Navigator

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USA
248 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2009 : 15:37:42

Thx Sam

Are you saying there should be an existing drain hole there that's likely plugged?

(ps - i will visually check tomorrow)

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2009 : 20:50:56

If you see seepage around a deadlight (window), you've found a problem. The deadlights are mounted through both the outer cabin trunk and the inner liner--two different moldings. Water that gets past the outer seal will mostly run down between the two and end up in the bilge. Some might make it inside the liner and show as seepage on the shelf below it, since the inner side isn't sealed as the outside is supposed to be.

My main leak into the bilge was from around the cockpit transom drain tubes. I sealed them on the cockpit side with some caulk on a fingertip, and that reduced the bilge water by 90%. I never found the other 10% but didn't lose sleep over it. Maybe Bruce (Voyager) found it.

Edited by - on

hinmo
Navigator

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USA
248 Posts

Response Posted - 09/13/2009 : 07:53:41

Update - yup, the anchor locker was overflowing, the drain was plugged. AND...there was a gallon+ in the bilge.

Also, there was half a gallon in the port settee locker....from the windows?

thx

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2009 : 06:41:58

We have the anchor locker leak as well. I need to tackle that one. At the same time, I'll likely open up th edrain with the 1" bronze nipple that is suggested in the tech tips. It looks like a very worthwhile mod.

All it takes is a leaf or a spider and that existing drain will plug pretty quickly. First hint of the anchort locker drain issue is mud in the forepeak locker (front of the Vee berth)

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5309 Posts

Response Posted - 09/17/2009 : 18:17:24

Dave
whenever I get water in the bilge, I also get water on the dinette table dripping off the port side light fixture. I assume it comes in from the window (deadlight), and it seeps down to the bilge, and also comes through the top of the light fixture. Over the past summer, the most I've removed from the bilge was about 12 oz of water (about 1/3 liter).

I have not seen a trail of water coming in from the transom scuppers, but admittedly, that would be quite difficult to see unless I had the quarterberth cover open during a rainstorm.

Edited by - on

Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 09/17/2009 : 18:28:57

In one of Don Casey's books he talks about using a leaf blower to put a little air pressure in the cabin and then go over the outside with soapy water to look for bubbles around stancions and deck hardware. Don't know if it works but it might be worth a try.

Edited by - on

tbosch
Navigator

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163 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2009 : 11:09:56

My boat is on the hard and to weeks ago I was inspecting the keel bolts and trying to figure out how to protect them from additional rusting. The bilge was dry. Over the last two weeks we've had some good winds and 2 or 3 inches of rain. I was at the boat yesterday and the bilge shoe cavity was full! I took almost 6 gallons of water out of there.

Like a previous poster stated, when on the hard you don't always have the nose into the wind. Some rain gets in through the door but there isn't a direct path from the interior floor to the bilge. There was about 1 or 2 cups of water on the galley floor, which I assume came from the door.

I can't imagine how so much water got in during several days of heavy rain. Could the windows be leaking that bad? I inspected the cockpit drains from inside and they seemed dry and the debris from recent projects back there didn't look wet either.

My anchor locker is draining and not leaking. In fact I just painted it with 5 coats of Interlux 2000E while I was barrier coating my hull.

Anything leaking into the cabin would be accumulating on the cabin floor or the shelves running under the windows. What are the main access points to the bilge? I'm somewhere between mystified, horrified and depressed...

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2009 : 11:46:26

To accumulate that much water I would expect your cockpit drains are disconnected or broke allowing the water that collects in your cockpit to drain straight into the bilge. It would be hard for your windows to allow that much seepage without it being extremely evident. Do a search in the C25 forum for cockpit drains and you should find some helpful information.

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3475 Posts

Response Posted - 10/14/2009 : 05:42:24

“I'm somewhere between mystified, horrified and depressed...”

My boat Lee Kee is a joke name regarding water. I consider Catalina’s one of the driest boats on the market. My 84 is now 25 years old and I’ve not yet brought many things on the boat “up to code” and so water gets in when it rains. My Stamas power boat holds 25 gallons with 2 bilge pumps running when it is at dock. Not the best liner/bilge design, but then many other aspects of the design are great. I’ve been though 3 bilge pump designs and 3 instillations to find out what works best for this boat and I’ve learned a lot. I love it.
Boats get water in the bilge. I work to keep the water out and nothing is depressing about this. I’d say for a sailor this is the human condition. Water gets in lots of places, and some condenses on the inside of the hull. Most of it runs to the bilge, as designed. My on-going project is to open up hull fittings, gaskets, caulk, and any place that breeches the hull/deck and re-secure them so they are watertight and shipshape. If I had a new boat I’d be bored. If a bad storm came through I’d probably be re-sealing the same fittings on a new boat that I’m working now.
My Catalina had just about nothing done to it by the DPO and it works fine. The water in the bilge would evaporate and some mold would show up in the boat some times of year. Depends on the weather. I wipe down the interior with a bleach solution about once a year. I’d like something better so I’m working on venting and re-bedding to hold back the water. The last project I did was replace the slides on the companionway hatch and I found water was running off the top, into the top of the slide and into the liner. I’ve resealed that and it is one more place that water does not get in. If we get 5 inches of rain my bilge might get a quarter inch of water in the bilge.

Your water on the cabin floor may be from the poptop and hull gasket leaking. I’ve seen that on mine, when I was onboard when it was raining. I like to stay on the boat when it rains sometime and look at everything.

This is more fun that working on the gutters on the house ( that reminds me… )

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2009 : 10:12:19

I used a water dramm (which provides an even/gentle spray - approximating what mother nature does) on every part of the deck while a friend was below with a flashlight. We were able to pinpoint every leak in a matter of a few hours. One surprise was when the anchor locker became plugged - water would spill over the cutouts for the old style running lights. The water ran down between the liner and the hull into the bilge. This was a major source of water. The other source (one we didn't suspect) was the traveler bar - there's not much of a flange at the base to divert water.

Edited by - on

Daren
1st Mate

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USA
81 Posts

Response Posted - 10/27/2009 : 05:01:58

I too have water in my bilge...there is always water in the bilge. It's never over the bilge pump flapper, but just below it. I also have condensation issues on my boat when it rains and some leaching from the deck into the cabin, but no pooling of water...just moisture. This water in the boat adds to the that nice "homey" musty boat smell which used to offend me but now evokes the fondest of memories when I put my foulies on to walk the doggie! I have not had my stuffing box checked in a year and don't see any real problems there, but the question here is how much water is too much water in the bilge?

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3475 Posts

Response Posted - 10/27/2009 : 06:10:54

I had been finding about 1/8 inch of water in the bilge after hard rains. This appears to have been the condition of the boat for many years with no ill effects. Atlanta has had about 2 years of drought so the boat stayed clean and dry.
We had some heavy rain recently but this weekend the bilge was dry. I appear to have found where the water was coming into the liner at the top of the companionway slide. I'm still getting water in, in very small amounts, but I do not have mold. The PO had carpet down so he never checked the bilge. IMHO I don't think you want any water coming in if you can, but that is a goal. I'm not sure how long my dry bilge will last given the number of places water could get in.
I've still got some water coming in at the top sides of the companionway hatch, and water makes it to the counter top and down into the drawer and onto the cabin floor, but not much. I've had to replace the drawer bottoms. Many recommend using a canvas cover for the companionway boards. I think the boat is doing pretty good for 20 years of neglect.

I don't think you'd want any water simply because it indicates water is coming in somewhere. If water is in the bilge it would be bad to have it leaking into the bolts and possibly causing them to rust. The bilge on my boat appears to be water tight, as the water stays put and the bilge gelcoat looks crack free and the bolts and nuts appear to be rust free and caulked up good. I don't think you can really tell without pulling the nuts and looking at as much bolt as you can. But if rusty bolts are there you'd think you could see the rust coming up.

Any water is an indication of a possible problem. Once you find the source of the leak, you can find out what the problem might be.

Edited by - on

signthis
Deckhand

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Canada
4 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2009 : 18:19:57

My Catalina 25 is also getting too much water in the bilge . I saw water stains around one window , so re/re and resealed it . i guess after reading this i'll do the other windows as well. i have a tarp over the house roof now and i'm still getting water . the anchor locker isn't the issue . After all the years maybe i should re/re and reseal the stancheons too. i have through the transom cockpit drains , so i'll try sealing around those too . Has anyone found a leak else where that i should look ? My last boat a Tanzer 7.5 was dry as bone and i like to try and get this boat the same way again . Or is catalina 25 1982 just prone to water leaking ? Any more suggestions would be fantastic .

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3475 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2009 : 05:46:12

I don't think they are prone to water leaking they just need to have all the fittings rebedded after every 20 years of full sun and weather. Ya gotta do a refit ever so often. Nothing strange about that.

The pop top sags down and water sits around the gasket and comes in so you might need a new poptop gasket, or reseal the old one.
The stanchion bases rock with use and the bedding gets old.
The Mast base moves and compresses and the gasket gets hard.
The Cleats get loose and leak.

I think I know the old Sea Song sung by Dave...

Polysulfied is My Friend
When I use her I'm a Grin
Fill my Caulk Gun once again
Polysulfide is my Friend.

http://www.boatus.com/boattech/casey/35.htm

( not to be used on plastic )

Edited by - on

jebrant
Deckhand

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USA
19 Posts

Response Posted - 11/15/2009 : 09:53:21

Hi,

I had this exact same problem and took a bit of time to figure it out. I would get water when the boat heeled over and found that I had a plugged drain in the anchor locker. I've only used the anchor twice since I bought the boat in July/August but some mud from the anchor combined with the rain water going in plugged it up.
I believe it was going in where the bow light wiring ran through the top of the anchor locker so I'm going to caulk it with some silicone I think one of these days just to ensure it doesn't happen again if the locker plugs.

James

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by hinmo
 Folks - I have noticed water in the bilge after rain storms while Kukla was on the mooring. I assumed it was the windows, as I see traces of intrusion.

...............

Got any ideas?

(ps - the anchor locker is full of water, does that have a drain somewhere?)

Thanks
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5309 Posts

Response Posted - 11/15/2009 : 16:52:08

I've determined a few sources of water and wetness on Passage. First, I need to rebed the six main stanchions, as they wiggle when wiggled. Water undoubtedly gets in there.

This will require that I drill out a bigger hole (maybe 1" diameter), then remove the soggy core material with a drill and a bent nail (as Don Casey suggests), then refill the void with epoxy, let it cure, then drill out new stanchion bolt holes.

I need to investigate the cockpit drains again this winter. Last year they looked ok. I wish there was some kind of permanent fix for them, but I dare not try to remove them, could botch something up.

There may be a leak by the mast tabernacle, but I've never seen it dripping. I get a little puddle right by the head, which may come from the port holes.

I checked my bilge today because I considered adding some anti-freeze to it. I found that there was some salt water in it. Not sure whether that seeped in through the keel bolt holes, or whether splashed in through the port holes over the summer from seaspray.

I found about 3 oz of water in the bilge.

Edited by - on

andypavo
1st Mate

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USA
51 Posts

Response Posted - 12/11/2009 : 20:01:11

What's a good brand of sealant? Is this something I could pick up at Lowes? Also, is there a wood core in the deck?

Edited by - on

mlg3733
Navigator

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118 Posts

Response Posted - 12/11/2009 : 20:27:18

You can find 3M 4200 and 5200 marine sealants at the Home Depot in New York state, so Lowe's may have it as well depending of your location.
There is core wood in the deck.
I get water in the bilge via the gas vent and hose after rainy days and when the river is really choppy, water will find its merry way up the cable hose.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 12/12/2009 : 16:28:15

4200 and 5200 are not sealants; they are permanent adhesives. Follow Bristle's advice on drilling, if necessary, and bed properly with polysulfide. The silicones and polyurethanes that you get at Lowe's for use at home are not up to the job on a boat.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5309 Posts

Response Posted - 12/12/2009 : 17:28:52

Hear here. I agree with the use of polysulfide, available at boating stores. It's the only caulking material I know that (1) sticks to stuff, keeping a tight seal (silicone does not), but doesn't stick too hard, (2) cures into a non-sticky material that can be shaved or trimmed in a few days to a week after application and (3) remains flexible and never gets brittle.

It also does not permanently glue materials together - it can be worked free using a knife, putty knife or paint scraper. And the material can be trimmed or scraped off if you need to remove it.

Good stuff!

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2009 : 10:30:28

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave5041
 4200 and 5200 are not sealants...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Word. 5200 isn't a proper bedding compound and shouldn't be used anywhere on a boat except maybe for the hull-deck joint or mounting the keel. I agree with Sten (Redviking) that it shouldn't be sold to the public in marine stores. The only caveat for polysulfide (Life Caulk) is its statement that it isn't compatible with some plastics. For bedding plastic hardware, Life Seal (a polysulfide silicone composite, I think) is supposed to be better. Their characteristics are just about equal from my experience.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 12/13/2009 10:34:32

Unsinkable2
Captain

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USA
273 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2009 : 14:01:17

A few have posted on the mystery of a dry boat suddenly leaking when on the hard. I've found that to be the case, but resolved it by checking the angle of the boat on the trailer (or stands). With the bow even a single inch higher or lower than when in the water will cause water to run in different directions.
When I got my 77, I spent a day and rebedded all the stanchions and deck hardware. Also redid the windows (more than a day...) but haven't had any leaks since. The only one I chase is a phantom leak somewhere around the anchor locker, but its just a trickle that appears randomly once a month or so.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2009 : 14:54:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Unsinkable2
 The only one I chase is a phantom leak somewhere around the anchor locker, but its just a trickle that appears randomly once a month or so.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Mike, as I mention above, (and this may not apply to your situation) we discovered water running over the cutouts for the bow lites inside the anchor locker - allowing water to migrate into the bilge.

Edited by - OJ on 12/29/2009 14:55:48

Charley Sheets
Deckhand

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5 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2009 : 20:10:03

Fellow C-25 sailors, I have followed this discussion for a while and have found leaks in all the usual places. Stopped up anchor with trickle from running lights not tight either. I have recently found a leak on the mast wiring fitting, by accident. The lights were not working so i bought a new fitting and found the leak while changing it. Note, Catalina bonds the mast light wires into the cabin top. I ran a new wire from the panel up inside the head and out beside the vhf antenna wire. Nit much damage below the fitting, so i ground out the wet wood, dried it all summer and filled with epoxy in the fall. Also, my boat has an electric start motor with the wiring coming through the stern with a nipple to seal the penetration. I found that when running the outboard at full throttle the bow rises and the stern gets lower. If i keep on going, water will climb up the transom-stern and get up high enough to get into the motor. this probably lets in water if not sealed with plumbers putty or some kind of sealer thst can be removed easily. I have found the usual assortment of mounting hardware leaking through to the inside. The most unusual leak found was through the depth sounder. the plastic face was destroyed from not being covered and funneled rain in very well. I had it replaced and will put a cover over it and the compas to stop a repeat. The top drawer and drawer slides are being replaced this winter. I just had a hatch cover made last month for $165. and no more hatch leaks. I am rebedding all windows and found the problem with the last effort was mis-alignment of the aluminum frames in the cutouts. I shimmed the frames with cardboard to match the cutouts precisely to get the correct amount of overhang on all sides before screwing the trim rings on. The two that are complete have no more leaks. Looks like i will have the carpet back in by spring. Good luck on your search Charley Sheets

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