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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4298 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/12/2009 : 20:33:53

It seems like no matter how I start out sitting in the cockpit I always end up sitting near the back by the end of the first hour.

Several times during the day when moving about the boat the tiller gets in the way. I've nearly broken it several times.

Has anyone thought about shortening the tiller. I think taking about a foot off would make it easier to move around in the cockpit and still allow plenty of length to maneuver the boat.

Any comments or suggestions?

Association Member

GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 06/12/2009 : 23:21:52

Gary,
I broke my tiller back in February, almost exactly the foot you're talking about. I found that controlling the boat with the shortened tiller wasn't that difficult. You might try making a plywood tiller to try it out, that way you can find out what it's like w/o damaging your original tiller. If you want to make the tiller, I can tell you what I went through to make mine and give you pointers.

Edited by - on

Mike Rauh
Deckhand

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11 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2009 : 11:18:42

A shorter tiller will work and 12-inches less makes more room. You might want to look into a Forespar tiller extension (available from Defender or CD). With the extension you can put it on when you are sailing single-handed and you need the extra tiller length to allow you to adjust lines that would normally be beyond reach.

I've added a tiller extension and a lock box (available from Defender). This allows me to place the end of the extension in the box and the tiller is then held in place. Note: this is not an auto-pilot and can only be used under light winds. It will allow you to step away from the tiller and make some sail adjustments.

Edited by - Mike Rauh on 06/13/2009 12:35:19

mlg3733
Navigator

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118 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2009 : 13:17:19

I don't know about shortening the tiller, I was in New York harbor last fall in pretty windy and choppy conditions and the leverage offered by that extra foot was certainly useful.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4298 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2009 : 18:41:02

I was thinking along the lines of Mike's suggestion. If I needed more tiller I would just add a tiller extension. I was also thinking of keeping my current tiller and finding a used tiller that someone doesn't need anymore or buying a new one and cutting the 12" off my old one. Then if the winds are going to be up I could just put the longer tiller back on the boat. I really think shortening the tiller 12" would help with more room in the cockpit without sacrificing control during normal wind conditions.

Edited by - GaryB on 06/13/2009 18:43:27

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2009 : 21:17:35

1/3 less tiller is 1/3 more effort, but everything is a trade off. Even with the option of trading back, I would shape a 2x2 or 2x4 first for a cheap trial. Ungainly, but it would be cheap and easy.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4298 Posts

Response Posted - 06/14/2009 : 09:06:06

Maybe it's just me but the center of my hand is usually about 5-6 inches back from the end of the tiller. I've also held it farther back in light and heavy air and don't really remember it making that much difference in force needed to control the boat. Maybe my boats just perfectly balanced! Not!!!

I'm thinking moving my hand back another 6-8 inches won't make that much difference. If anyone's going out today in heavy air maybe they could test my theory?

There's a boaters flea market near the entrance of my marina. I may swing by there sometime to see if I can pickup an old tiller cheap and give this a try.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/14/2009 : 10:10:00

Gary, your vintage came with the balanced rudder--I can't imagine that a a foot off the tiller is going to increase the effort greatly. You don't need to cut or make anything to test--just hold it a foot back while sailing!

A tiller extension will not increase your leverage--in fact it reduces it by whatever distance back from the normal "grip" area it's mounted.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 06/14/2009 : 13:54:48

I agree with Bristle. Sail with a tape mark where you want to cut for a trial, but it shouldn't be significant with a balanced rudder. I don't have a balanced rudder.

Edited by - on

TractorJohn
Deckhand

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USA
24 Posts

Response Posted - 06/14/2009 : 16:38:42

Here's what I did. I unbolted the handle from the rudder leaving the two pcs of aluminum in place on rudder.
I then fashioned from sea board two plates that fit over the aluminum and extend far enough above to create a slot that the handle rests in. At the top of the starboard (slot/box) I used bolts with wing nuts, when the wing nuts are tightened the handle is squeezed and locked, when loosened the handle slides all the way aft and out of way.
Sorry, I don't have pictures. I have found some bugs to correct, but it is a very promising system if your tiller handle is in your way.
Only problems so far have been: wing nuts fell off, leverage is so reduced I almost got in trouble.
Good points are, no drilling or changes are made to my handle and entire assembly can be removed. Cost nothing using small sea board scraps
I'm very happy with the results, I use tiller pilot with the handle retracted to about 15 inches freeing up a lot of room.
TJ

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 06/14/2009 : 16:59:43

I stand most of the time, w/ the tiller 'tween my knees...a foot less would move me too far aft and close to the split backstay.

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3319 Posts

Response Posted - 06/14/2009 : 18:54:37

GaryB - when I had a 250lb genoa trimmer he complained that I always hit him in the butt with the end of the tiller when we tacked.
I cut about 9" off the end and rounded it off - no more complaints from the crew, more room to move in the cockpit and no change in steerability.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4298 Posts

Response Posted - 06/14/2009 : 19:04:59

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Derek Crawford
 GaryB - when I had a 250lb genoa trimmer he complained that I always hit him in the butt with the end of the tiller when we tacked.
I cut about 9" off the end and rounded it off - no more complaints from the crew, more room to move in the cockpit and no change in steerability.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Thanks Derek! In fact, thank you to all that have responded! I usually hit myself in the butt when I'm tacking and trying to move to the other side while trimming the sheets.

A few times I've lost my balance while trying to do the above maneuver and have landed on the tiller. It's a miracle it hasn't broken. That's the reason for shortening it.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5313 Posts

Response Posted - 06/15/2009 : 06:39:24

Any way to fashion a flip-up tiller, where it could be swung underneath when not needed, and flipped up and snapped or pinned into place when needed?

Looking for some kind of clever carpentry and metal work. Not my forte, but with all the talent on this forum, I'm sure somebody could come up with something cool.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 06/15/2009 : 07:06:35

Maybe I have too much weather helm, but I use every inch of that tiller in a blow. I wouldn't shorten it voluntarily at all.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 06/15/2009 : 08:59:19

Seems like on the C-22 and C-25, my normal helm position is just about where the cockpit storage compartments are (I have the teak rim stains on a lot of T-shirt backs as proof. On our C-22, the PO had mounted the tiller extension (20" FICO brand) about 1 hand's width from the end of the tiller on the underside(remember this was 30 years ago!) with a pole clip farther back to hold it in place when not needed. Actually, it worked out quite well. Such a setup might compensate for a shorter tiller, and still allow one to sit well forward of mid-cockpit.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/15/2009 : 11:10:02

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 Maybe I have too much weather helm, but I use every inch of that tiller in a blow...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">You need a balanced rudder--for me, it reduced the pressure by maybe 2/3. And/or maybe you need to tip your mast forward a few inches (reducing the rake).

I've used tiller extenders on a variety of boats... You get maximum leverage from an extender when it's perpendicular to the tiller. Any angle forward or aft of that--particularly forward--reduces your leverage considerably, especially for pulling to windward to counteract weather helm.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 06/15/2009 11:13:42

brrit
1st Mate

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80 Posts

Response Posted - 06/16/2009 : 05:17:57

Gary -

Great topic. I would love an extra foot in the cockpit. Personally, I find myself sitting at the very back of the boat allowing as much room as possible for the family/crew/friends aboard.

Leaning towards knocking off 12-16 inches and adding a tiller extender. Now I just need the time to do it....

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4298 Posts

Response Posted - 06/16/2009 : 18:06:12

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by brrit
 Gary -

Great topic. I would love an extra foot in the cockpit. Personally, I find myself sitting at the very back of the boat allowing as much room as possible for the family/crew/friends aboard.

Leaning towards knocking off 12-16 inches and adding a tiller extender. Now I just need the time to do it....
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Bryan,

My wife's going up to Denton this weekend. Since you don't have any time give me your address and I'll send her by to pickup your tiller. I'll cut off 12" and give it a try on my boat. If I don't like the way it works I'll mail the remains back to you and you can put a tiller extender on it.

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 06/17/2009 : 07:44:48

Yesterday I tried sailing with my hand about 12 inches from the end of the tiller,I was thinking about this thread, no real problems with it in light to medium winds.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 06/17/2009 : 07:56:04

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by brrit
 Gary -

Great topic. I would love an extra foot in the cockpit.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

So THAT's where they're coming from...

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/story.html?id=3d3ff931-97ab-4dda-8d54-278d56f55b1b

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2009 : 06:03:33

...an extra foot!!!

What a weird story, Chris. Extrapolating the Strait of Georgia history of floating sneakers, I can only imagine what is floating in the mid-Pacific gyre, in terms of running shoes & feet from maritime disasters from bygone eras.

I once found an aluminum Sunfish mast drifting in to shore on an island in the Chesapekae Bay. It was about 9 feet long, but there were no extra feet with it!

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2009 : 12:36:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by brrit
 Gary -

Great topic. I would love an extra foot in the cockpit.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

So THAT's where they're coming from...

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/story.html?id=3d3ff931-97ab-4dda-8d54-278d56f55b1b
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That's some crazy serial killer stuff right there.

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2009 : 21:22:58

No, I think the authorities consider those to be drowning or boating accidents in which the victims disintegrate over a period of a few years and feed the fishes, except for the inedible sneakers and their contents. No sensible fish would nibble on rubber and nylon!

Happy sailing!

...and wear your PFD!

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3475 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2009 : 05:11:03

Sharks feel the shoes are chewy and rubbery to the palate and makes
your belly bloat...

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5881 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2009 : 06:49:52

Cooincidentally, the tiller broke on my friend's 28' boat yesterday, and we had to jury rig the boat hook as our replacement tiller, "lashing" it to the rudder post hardware with some big steel screw clamps, like oversized hose clamps. It occurred to me that, if we hadn't been able to jury rig something, and if bad weather was coming, we might have been forced to call for Tow Boat US, for about $700-800. The owner of a tiller-steered boat should have either an emergency replacement tiller, or the hardware needed to jury rig something. For a C25, a piece of sturdy wood the proper width, with holes drilled in it to fit the mounting hardware would be sufficient. Toss it in a locker until you need it.

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