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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Lazy jacks

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Blue Nose
1st Mate

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67 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/06/2009 : 11:26:22

One of the posters on the board had mentioned that you could use lazy jacks as a form of topping lift if you had them or installed them. Could someoen help me with that? Some discussion as to their intended purpose then beneficial other purposes would be nice. Also does anyone have instructions or photos on how to install them and set them up??

Thanks

1986 C-25 FK Tall Rig
"Blue Nose"
Mobjack Bay, Virginia

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2009 : 11:37:22

Lazy jacks do not serve as a topping lift in any way.
Lazy jacks are for containing a large mainsail as it drops and sits on the boom. They are pointless on a main as small as the Catalina 25 main, but hey some people put curb feelers on their Buicks too.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2009 : 12:29:33

Actually, I would consider a lazy jack on our boat. Being barely more than a newb, I found last year that a couple times when I was coming in to the harbour and had to drop the main in a hurry with no help on deck, the mess the sail made got in the way of safely handling lines and docking. This was exasperated when single-handling or having very inexperienced crew.

I don't know that I would put lazy jacks very high on my list though. typical installation is a line from the end of the boom to the masthead, with a second line (or a loop, or something else) coming down from the middle of th efirst line to a point about halfway back on the boom. Put an installation in on each side of the boom, and the main will fall between the lazyjacks and not make a mess on deck.

Here is someone's (I don't know who) installation diagram... [url="http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://slowflight.net/upgrades/images/lazyjacks.gif&imgrefurl=http://slowflight.net/upgrades/lazyjacks_how-to.html&usg=__xmeeTYvtxNoJoJ3tvxYh0vgWaf8=&h=428&w=442&sz=26&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=9IUxlFHPx4lSVM:&tbnh=123&tbnw=127&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dlazyjacks%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff"]Lazy Jack install[/url]

I agree that the installation is not intended to be a topping lift, although it may take up some of the weight of the boom. Generally 'jacks are of a lighter gauge of line.

Edited by - Prospector on 05/06/2009 12:31:30

farrison
Navigator

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USA
166 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2009 : 14:09:53

I have curb feelers on my buick.....
The Previous owner had installed lazy jacks on my boat, and I use them. They are not critical to the operation of the boat, but they come in handy when dropping the sail and keeping it off the cabintop/deck and decrease the flogging around while you get a sail tie around the sail. As stated above, jacks wouldn't be on the top of my list of upgrades, but pointless?
As for using them as a topping lift, they will take up the weight of the boom when you slack off the main halyard, but a properly adjusted topping lift is better, and if you have to use the boom as a MOB hoist, the topping lift is a must.

Paul

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John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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3444 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2009 : 14:52:18

I like how Frank is so equivocal. Remember, Frank, we're not all sailing on a pond that you can see across on a foggy day -- or any other time.

I have lazy jacks. I probably wouldn't have installed them but the PO did and I'm glad he did. It makes dropping the sail a snap. I particularly like not having to fool with the sail when I'm alone on the boat. I let the jacks catch the sail then I make it neat once I'm safely tied to my slip.

My jacks are attached about 2/3rds the way up the mast and have 2 attachment points on the boom. They are very effective as a substitute for a topping lift if all you want them to do is keep the boom up when the sail is down. For those that use the topping lift to manipulate sail shape, the jacks are not effective for that. In fact the jacks negatively impact the sail shape if left tight while under way.

Edited by - on

skrenz
Captain

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USA
351 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2009 : 16:03:56

One downside to lazy jacks is that it makes putting on a sail cover much more difficult because you have to get it around the lazy jack lines. Has anyone figured this out?

Edited by - on

Deric
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2009 : 16:52:58

I think it would make much better sense that should Lazy Jacks ever function as a topping lift, then the name should change as well: Topping Jack... or Lazy Lift?

As one shall note, some folks prefer Lazy Jacks: some folks do not.

I do not have LJ on my boat, but am looking into trying it out. They are easy enough to make -- search the web and you will see homemade versions -- some better than others.

Keep reading, learning, and asking the questions.

Sail on,, with lazy jacks or not.

Deric

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2009 : 17:13:18

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2009 : 18:17:11

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by skrenz
 One downside to lazy jacks is that it makes putting on a sail cover much more difficult because you have to get it around the lazy jack lines. Has anyone figured this out?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Two options. One is to modify the sailcover with slits for the lazy jacks lines. I think this is the most common solution.

There are also some lazy jacks that are deployed only when you are about to take the mainsail down. Otherwise they are held along the mast. When it is time to douse the main you pull the jacks out and hook them to the boom. Lower the main and flake and put on the sail-ties. Then move the lazy jacks back to the mast and put on the sailcover.

We don't use lazy jacks because it is always the two of us. Still there are times when dousing in strong wind that I wish we had them.

Edited by - on

Peregrine
Admiral

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830 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2009 : 18:22:06

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Deric
 I think it would make much better sense that should Lazy Jacks ever function as a topping lift, then the name should change as well: Topping Jack... or Lazy Lift?

As one shall note, some folks prefer Lazy Jacks: some folks do not.

I do not have LJ on my boat, but am looking into trying it out. They are easy enough to make -- search the web and you will see homemade versions -- some better than others.

Keep reading, learning, and asking the questions.

Sail on,, with lazy jacks or not.

Deric
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Could you post some links?
Thanks.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2009 : 18:23:03

There is one modification that will get lazy jacks out of the way. I saw it in a Sail Care catalog a few years ago.
One version is to put a micro block at each attachment point up the mast and use a line long enough to come down the mast to a small cleat on the mast just above the boom plus a little extra. Once the main is down and has been secured with sail ties/straps, the lazy jack line is loosened and brought down enough to lay beside the boom and go around the cleat mentioned above, then the loose end is also cleated there. (Another method is to use a combination of line and bungee cord instead of cleating and uncleating the free end of the jack lines). At this point, the sail cover can be used without being obstructed by the jack lines. To raise the main, remove the sail cover, first uncleat the 2 lazy jack lines and bring them up to service position and recleat the free end. Then remove the sail ties/straps. The jack lines, now in position, will hold the sail in place on the boom, ready to be raised. I realize it is a few extra steps and that this method will not allow the jack lines to continuously hold the boom up. I hope my description made sense.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2009 : 18:44:23

[url="http://www.ezjax.com/index.html"]EZjacks[/url]

These are retractable lazy jacks. You could likely replicate this on your own for less $.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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3444 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2009 : 19:15:26

Mine are fixed on the mast as I said but the lines come down to blocks on either side of the sail. Lines attached to the boom are fed through those blocks. When I'm at the dock, topping lift holding the boom, I release the jacks and lay them along the boom and cover them with the sail cover. They're still attached to the blocks but the slack is sufficient to allow the upper lines to lay against the mast. Of course, I tie them off to avoid them slapping the mast all night.

Edited by - on

glen
Captain

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359 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2009 : 06:01:53

The Doyle "StackPack" has the sail cover attached to the sail. After dropping the main you just zip it closed on the top. I know someone on a 46 footer, that has one and he loves it http://www.doylesails.com/cruising/stackpack/index.html?gclid=CNuwpNmeqpoCFctL5QodDjBm0g

Edited by - on

Rich G
Navigator

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226 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2009 : 11:24:26

I put them on my boat, but then again, I'm lazy! ;)

I'll post pictures sometime after my boat is launched and stepped next week.

Edited by - Rich G on 05/07/2009 11:24:53

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2009 : 12:45:04

I made the comment, which was subsequently clarified, about lazy jacks holding up the boom - I apologize if it seemed I was suggesting that LJs would be a substitute for a topping lift - it would not, and thanks to those who provided the clarity! In terms of the sail cover...our LJs are set at the start of the season and then forgotten, they are lose enough to allow the cover to install, but tight enough to catch the main when dropping it...

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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2009 : 12:53:33

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by glen
 The Doyle "StackPack" has the sail cover attached to the sail. After dropping the main you just zip it closed on the top. I know someone on a 46 footer, that has one and he loves it http://www.doylesails.com/cruising/stackpack/index.html?gclid=CNuwpNmeqpoCFctL5QodDjBm0g
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

We have friends aboard a C&C 30 with a stackpack. They hate it. One man's junk and all that.

Edited by - on

Even Chance
Captain

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USA
393 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2009 : 05:39:34

I have both lazy jacks AND a topping lift.

I find the jacks extremely useful when dousing the main. They keep the sail on the top of the boom until I can properly stow the sail. In big winds, a doused main can spill over the boom and cause havoc.

I highly recommend a stout topping lift, but jacks can lift and support the boom and double as a topping lift. Been there, done that.

The Harken lazy jack kit is retractable, and thus avoids the need to modify the sail cover. When not sailing, I loosen the jacks and hook them over the large halyard cleats on the mast, which I don't use because all my lines are led to the cockpit. If you don't have a topping lift, you would attach the boom to the pigtail before retracting the jacks.

As I've said before, you're welcome to go look at my boat in Urbanna.

Edited by - Even Chance on 05/08/2009 05:48:07

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2009 : 08:16:29

OK, for you folks with the lazy jacks, do you also flake the sails or does the lazy jack catching of the sails basically accomplish this for you?? Pat is very focused on a "properly flaked" main!

Anyone got a photo of what the sail looks like doused in the lazy jacks?

Edited by - on

Even Chance
Captain

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USA
393 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2009 : 10:11:11

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nautiduck
 OK, for you folks with the lazy jacks, do you also flake the sails or does the lazy jack catching of the sails basically accomplish this for you?? Pat is very focused on a "properly flaked" main!

Anyone got a photo of what the sail looks like doused in the lazy jacks?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Jacks won't automatically flake the sails -- that's what a Dutchman or similar rig accomplishes. On the other hand, it's easy to flake the main inside the jacks before I put sail ties on it, then retract the jacks, and put on the sail cover.

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2009 : 10:23:42

exactly!

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Blue Nose
1st Mate

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67 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2009 : 11:14:15

There is a nice picture of a lazy jack system in the photos section. Look at Kick'em Jenny Nice boat and nice setup.

Edited by - on

Jmurfy
Navigator

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USA
176 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2009 : 08:54:12

I dont flake my sails at all. I do what an old blue water sailor showed me. That is I form a poch with the sail near the boom and stuff the rest of the sail into the pouch I created. I then roll the pouch up along its length and neatly put on my sail ties. Anyone else do this? Anyone know of any problems doing this?

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2009 : 09:13:06

The Admiral demands flaking like this:

I have heard of the pouch method too and I bet it is fine. Lot's of ways to do things on a boat!

Edited by - Nautiduck on 05/09/2009 09:22:57

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2009 : 11:33:27

I've done the "pouch" thing--quick and easy out on the water, and it's especially good with a bolt-rope luff, since you can roll the whole thing like a rug. With slugs, it might twist the sail a little by the mast, but that never seemed like a problem--you probably shouldn't do it with a laminated sail.

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2009 : 12:40:32

We roll our racing mains and headsails, but I flake the cruising main.

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