Association Forum - Will the passport laws affect you?

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Will the passport laws affect you?

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Page: of 2

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

Member Avatar

Canada
3159 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/11/2009 : 15:35:56

I am asking this out of mostly personal, non-sailing, selfish reasons, but it will affect a great number of marinas in the great lakes region, and likely in northern Mexico as well.

Once the new Passport requirements are in place to cross the US border, will your travel plans change much?

If you wanted to do the North Channel, would you still do it, or would you rather not bother with the passport thing and just go to the Apostles or somethign else thats closer to home, and is US soil?

Please don't go political here, the question is just are you more likely to stay in the USA than you would be if the passports weren't required. A simple yes/no question.

"Iris"
1984 FK/SR #4040
http://frosthaus.blogspot.com/

Take a minute to register your boat with the association!!
http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/owner_questionnaire.htm

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

Members Avatar

844 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2009 : 15:55:48

We travel to Canada to visit my wife's folks once or twice a year and have been doing so for over ten years. What's so hard about getting a passport?

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

Members Avatar

USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2009 : 16:02:18

I've had a passport since I was a little kid, so I guess this is something that I wouldn't even think about.

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

1520 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2009 : 16:18:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stu Jackson C34
 We travel to Canada to visit my wife's folks once or twice a year and have been doing so for over ten years. What's so hard about getting a passport?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ditto

Edited by - on

Renzo
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
621 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2009 : 16:29:44

I wish it were only a passport issue. I've had a passport for years and years. The thing that pisses me off is the requirement for an
I-68 form or NEXUS pass when returning from Canada on my boat. I mean, I already have a passport that I can use all over the world, but to go to Windsor Ontario (30 miles away by boat) me and everyone on my boat have to spend more dollars, drive to a special office in advance and in person to fill out more forms to accomplish the same thing that my passport can do.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

Members Avatar

USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2009 : 16:40:50

Is that a US or Canadian requirement? I haven't heard of NEXUS before.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2009 : 17:51:40

David,

It is new this year, from what I understand, Americans re-entering the USA need a passport now. This is an initiative in response to 911.

http://www.consular.canada.usembassy.gov/enter_usa_from_canada.asp

The key change to the border law is this (from the website above):

New Passport Requirement
Travelers to and from Canada will be required to have a passport or other secure, accepted document to enter or re-enter the United States. This is a change from prior travel requirements and will affect all United States citizens entering the United States from countries within the Western Hemisphere who do not currently possess valid passports.

What is confusing to me is that there are also spots from the consular General that state these rules only apply to air travellers.

http://www.consular.canada.usembassy.gov/passport_requirement.asp

Since I already have a passport this has little bearing on me, but for other travellers it could mean a great deal of inconvenience.

Edited by - Prospector on 02/11/2009 17:56:42

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

Members Avatar

USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2009 : 17:56:43

Nexus is an optional process to to simplify traveling to and from Canada for frequent travelers, its like a season pass. My marina has a videophone check-in station,
so its a 5 min deal. The forthcoming plastic card PP will eventually be able to be processed through a card reader, easing the process even more.

Edited by - on

sweetcraft
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2009 : 19:39:53

For the cruise to Gulf Islands I will have to be sure that the passport is all that is required. Will look on the website before casting off. There has been a lot of confusion and rumors about what is required. I do have my passport and Canadian Family used Nexus. We know what not to say and only answer the questions. Lost a hot dog at the US port last time and got into trouble not having the phone-in crossing number in the windows on both sides of the boat in a Canadian Port. I plan to do what is necessary to cross and not change my cruise. Oh, yes, it is not a good idea to get in close and hang around bridges and ferry docks. Coming back to US by car two years ago, the border closed down for almost 5 hours and luckily I had drinks and food. There were bill boards informing us that you could only idle your engine for a certain number of minutes while in line. A port-a-potty would have been handy. Felt sorry for families with children and older travelers.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2009 : 20:49:26

This rule is already in effect, started in 2007. We cruised in Canada last fall and carried passports. They were very necessary to get back into the USA. No big deal though. US Customs was very thorough which I appreciate.

Edited by - on

Renzo
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
621 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2009 : 22:35:36

I have no objection to tightening our borders and as I said I have had a passport for years. What I don't understand is why I need another piece of paper (at $35/head/season for an I-68) or ID Card (at $50/head/5yrs)in addition to my passport,just travel to Canada and back by boat, when I can travel all over the world with just my current passport. I used my I-68 ID number three times last season when returning from Canada by boat. I called in by cell phone right after we crossed back into US waters all I had to do was give the agent the ID numbers for me and my wife and answer a few questions about where we went in Canada and how long we were there. I don't see how it was secure talking over a cell phone or how they could tell that I wasn't being forced to transport terrorists or illegals at gun point just because I had an I-68 ID number instead of a regular passport number. But I'm not going to complain because I don't want them to decide they have to inspect my boat every time I return to my dock.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2009 : 22:40:42

Renzo, I think the NEXUS thing is optional - but I don't know since I don't cross the border often enough to warrant getting one. Does it speed up the proces for you enough to warrant continuing to get it?

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

Members Avatar

USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2009 : 05:22:34

On the same subject, do you guys up north have to pay when you visit Canada?

I ask because when we went to Bimini last year, we had to pay $150 to the Bahamas Customs Agency which covered up to 4 people on our boat.

Paul

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

Members Avatar

USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2009 : 08:57:39

I don't think Canada requires a cruising permit, at least its never been mentioned when we've checked in.

Edited by - on

Jefffriday
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
198 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2009 : 10:39:24

It's all just a steel door on a screened in porch, the illusion of security,

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2009 : 10:47:18

Please don't get political, I don't want to be banned for life.

Based on the input here, and some input from my investment advisor, it looks like I have a pretty interesting opportunity. Its too offtopic for this forum, but thanks to all of you who chimed in with your thoughts!

Edited by - Prospector on 02/12/2009 11:02:30

glen
Captain

Members Avatar

359 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2009 : 10:58:51

There is no charge to go to a Canadian port, or to enter there waters. The only charge is from the US in the form of purchasing either the I-68 or NEXUS (the difference for the boater is that the NEXUS is a 5 year pass versus the 1 year I-68). Also as pointed out by Renzo (call this option “A”) every person on board must have there “papers”. This means that if my wife (the Captain) and I have our “papers” we still can’t bring any one with us, unless they have there “papers”. (I remember studying something like this in a world history class long ago.) There is (option “B”) Upon returning to US waters, I can (1) sail to a specific location, at 5 knots (2) contact the proper agency / (3) Wait and do not disembark or allow any one else on board to disembark, until the agency arrives / (4) Allow them on board (ya right, that’s an option), and present them with pass ports from every one on board / (5) wait while they inspect the entire boat / (6) And finally gain clearance to proceed to my home port.
I LOVE MY COUNTRY and I stand by all who serve to protect our freedom. But for Gods sake I’m coming home from Canada not the Persian Golf.
Will I continue to sail and visit my Canadian neighbors? Your dam right I will (but with the proper “papers”).

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2009 : 11:35:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by glen
 ...I LOVE MY COUNTRY and I stand by all who serve to protect our freedom. But for Gods sake I’m coming home from Canada not the Persian Golf...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Much as been said and written (including by Canadian officials) about the ease of entering Canada with false documentation. (I realize they're working on that.) Once there, the ease of entering the US (the terrorists' actual destination) is obvious. So, what do we do?

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 02/12/2009 11:36:07

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2009 : 12:03:29

Um... Guys... I already got in trouble for starting one thread that was political. This one is going to turn that way quick if we don't be careful.

My question has been answered and I am backing out of the room...

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2009 : 12:34:16

Here in Nortern Michigan, and I suspect in Northern Wisconsin and Minnesota as well, sailers have regularly cruised to the north shore of Lake Superior without any paperwork at all. The area is so desolate that, unless you visit the lakehead - Thunder Bay, you seldom meet other boaters let alone Canadian "officials". Some are now carrying passports but many others are not. There are no customs officals between Sault St. Marie, MI and Duluth, MN and thee budget is so tight that they hesitate to even send people to Houghton MI to check Canadian boats in our annual cross-lake yacht race between the Thunder Bay Yacht Club and ours.

It is common knowledge here that the Canadians are as ticked off as Renzo about these border requirements and are generally fairly lenient. Some are stricly by the book however. One of our racers was sent home without being able to disembark in Thunder Bay two years ago, because he had a DUI on his record. He wasn't even allowed ashore to restock food for the 18 hour return trip to Houghton.

So, will I or my fellow sailors get a passport, I-68, or NEXUS pass. I suspect that most will opt for the NEXUS pass because of it's extended and ease of use. A few will opt for none of these simply because there is nobody within 250 miles to check. They'll probably be just fine.

Edited by - on

Renzo
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
621 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2009 : 12:41:01

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by glen
 ...I LOVE MY COUNTRY and I stand by all who serve to protect our freedom. But for Gods sake I’m coming home from Canada not the Persian Golf...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Much as been said and written (including by Canadian officials) about the ease of entering Canada with false documentation. (I realize they're working on that.) Once there, the ease of entering the US (the terrorists' actual destination) is obvious. So, what do we do?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Dave, I didn't mean to hi-jack Prospector's thread into the political arena. Border Security is a serious issue and I don't pretend to be a security expert, but Prospector's original question was if the new passport requirement would keep one from traveling to Canada. I was trying to explain was that the passport requirement wouldn't, but the additional ID requirements,for traveling by water, which I feel are unnecessary, inconvenient and useless might stop me from sailing to the near-by ports in Canada. Maybe the I-68 is a valuable weapon in the war on terror, I don't know, but considering it was in use well before the 9/11 attack I doubt it. Perhaps the revenue it generates helps in defraying the cost of the additional boarder patrol boats and planes that are now in use, but I doubt that also, because the I-68 and Nexus programs are run by the INS not the CG or Homeland Security. This is a real boating issue for many of us in the Great Lakes and Northern and Southern border costal areas and is worthy of discussion.

PS: I think I need to clarify that even if you have a valid passport you are still required to get an I-68 or Nexus pass in addition to the passport to go to
Canada by boat.

Edited by - Renzo on 02/12/2009 12:47:08

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

Members Avatar

844 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2009 : 13:54:25

Pointing out government stupidity is not political, it is our right as citizens.

The whole issue of extra, costly paperwork in addition to a passport is mere nonsense and a pain in the butt.

Just avoid Friday Harbor - the customs guy there is a real piece of work! Nasty, unprofessional. Some friends from Victoria mentioned him years ago and he's still on the job. Roche Harbor is much easier, just ask Randy! He even has been reported in Cruising World, among many other publications and websites.

Edited by - Stu Jackson C34 on 02/12/2009 13:54:48

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2009 : 14:35:19

Gang, this is much ado about nothing. Coming back into the US is not hard and carrying passports and other "papers" is very reasonable. When we went to Canada last year we carried passports, boat registration, etc and I even had the permit to operate a VHF in Canada. These governments set the regs and all we have to do is comply. No big deal.

Stu is right, the US Customs at Roche Harbor was courteous and professional.

Canada is not Berzerkastan but don't forget that some of the 9/11 terrorists came in from Canada that day. Also recall that a terrorist was nabbed at the US/Canada crossing at Blaine Wa after 9/11 as he was headed to Los Angeles to blow up the airport there. That routine inspection sure had results. Every country has the right and obligation to do what it can to protect its citizens.

As for the I-68 here is the info from the US Customs web site:

"There is no requirement that boaters obtain Form I-68. However, boaters who choose not to obtain Form I-68 must report, in person, for inspection by a CBP Officer at a port-of-entry each time they enter the United States."

So, you do not need the I-68. I can testify that re-entering the US is not a big deal. Just have your passports and papers in order and you will have no trouble. We plan to be back in Canada again this summer. Those Canadians are friendly!

Edited by - Nautiduck on 02/12/2009 14:42:52

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2009 : 15:32:03

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nautiduck
 As for the I-68 here is the info from the US Customs web site:

"There is no requirement that boaters obtain Form I-68. However, boaters who choose not to obtain Form I-68 must report, in person, for inspection by a CBP Officer at a port-of-entry each time they enter the United States."

So, you do not need the I-68.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The I-68 form eliminates the requirement for in person inspection. Without it, one must make their way to a port-of-entry for an "in person" inspection. Say I sailed to Canada for a quick lunch. Without an I-68, immediately upon my return to my marina, I'd have to drive 30 miles away to my nearest designated port-of-entry (downtown Detroit) to present myself in person for inspection then I'd have to drive 30 miles back to my boat.

With an I-68, upon my return I simply make a phone call.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2009 : 16:00:39

From the [url="http://www.customs.gov/xp/cgov/travel/pleasure_boats/boats/cbbl.xml"]U.S Department of Homeland Security[/url]

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Q: What must I do if I don't have a Form I-68 to enter the United States by boat?
A: Boaters not in possession of a valid Form I-68 must either report in person for inspection at a port-of-entry or designated location or utilize one of the OARS (Outlying Area Reporting Station) videophones each time they apply for admission to the United States. Under the OARS program, videophones installed at public marinas along the Canadian border provide an automated inspection service enabling two-way visual and audio communication between the inspector and the applicant for admission. Any person who does not comply with these procedures may be subject to adverse actions under the provisions of the Immigration and Nationality Act and Title 19 of the United States Code.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> I wonder where those videophones are in my area.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/13/2009 : 07:55:42

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 I wonder where those videophones are in my area.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

OHIO
Cedar Point Marina, Sandusky, OH
Brand's Marina, Port Clinton, OH
East 55th St, Cleveland, OH
Grand River Marina, Fairport Harbor, OH
Chagrin Lagoon Yacht club, Eastlake, OH
Mentor Lagoon Marina, Mentor, OH
Ashtabula Public Dock, Ashtabula, OH
Put-In-Bay, South Bass Island, OH

For all the water surrounding Michigan and it's proximty to Canada, it only has one OARS videophone system, on Mackinac Island.

[url="http://www.customs.gov/xp/cgov/travel/pleasure_boats/boats/oars.xml"]Outlying Area Reporting Station (OARS)[/url]

Edited by - on

Page: of 2

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.