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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Internal Halyards

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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/06/2009 : 10:48:55

in order to swith from 2 to 4 halyards on my existing 4 sheaves at the masthead, I think I need to convert to internal Halyards.

If you have also done this, can you offer tips on coralling the electrical lines in the mast? No doubt this will require a length of conduit (Plastic?) running up the front of the mast with a cutout for the steaming light connection. Did you use sheet metal screw or pop-rivets to attach it? Was Chafe a concern? (Wires rubbing on pop-rivets/screws)?

How hard was it to install mast gates for the halyards to exit? Did you need special tools to machine the aluminium? Are concerns with weakening the mast real? And Finally, how bad is halyard slap with everything inside the mast?

I know this is a lot of questions, but I am playing with the idea of converting ours over and I'm not sure it is worth it just yet.

"Iris"
1984 FK/SR #4040
http://frosthaus.blogspot.com/

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Edited by - Prospector on 02/06/2009 10:49:35

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2009 : 11:34:29

Bamboo came with internal halyards and I love'em! So the only thing I can add is that there's no inner slap at all unless you haven't tied them off tight enough.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2009 : 13:15:53

Can anyone spot the difference between this [url="http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=332"]exit block from CD[/url] and this one (item #EB-2) from [url="http://garhauermarine.com/images/product/EB-2.jpg"]Garhauer[/url]??

Edited by - Prospector on 02/06/2009 13:18:43

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2009 : 13:22:18

Garhauer's picture is upside-down. CD buys much of its hardware from Garhauer.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 02/06/2009 13:25:36

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2009 : 13:27:28

Aside from 1 being inverted compared to the other, I don't see a difference. Can't tell about plastic vs. metal sheaves from the pics.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2009 : 13:42:04

Well the Garhauer one ($18.22) is a LOT cheaper than the CD one ($30.22). I think I may go ahead and place an order.

Now here's the dumb part - shouldn't the bar go to the top when its installed? That bar would hold the line out from the mast, right?

Edited by - Prospector on 02/06/2009 13:45:18

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2009 : 16:39:27

To my eye, the bar goes below (as shown by CD). The key is that the halyard exits around the sheave and out the open part of the assembly, which is where the bar is. I believe the bar (two compression sleeves and a flared tube) is primarily there for structure--not for contact by the halyard. But you don't have to take my word--I'm sure there will be a little instruction sheet, including a template for cutting the hole. The block should be low enough that the halyard can exit directly to a deck organizer. If you're just cleating on the mast, it should probably go below the cleat so the halyard doesn't contact the cutout.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2009 : 18:31:58

Depends on the spacing, but I think that the bar goes at the bottom. If it is at the top and creates any curve at all in the line before rounding the sheave, it should be at the bottom. I don't think that you want the halyard to touch the bar when it is moving after tension has been applied.

Edited by - on

Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2009 : 19:02:07

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">in order to swith from 2 to 4 halyards <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Why? To add a topping lift?

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 02/07/2009 : 09:13:44

Last summer I changed out my topping lift from thin rope tied to the masthead and boom end to wire rope and line. Used one of the wire halyard pieces from our C-22 when we went to all rope halyards, shortened about 2 ft. Attached it to the backstay pin at the masthead and attached a small block to the other end. An adjusting line runs from boom-end up to the block, back to the boom and forward along the boom to a cleat. Ultimately I hope to bring it back to the cockpit when I run the main halyard back.
I guess if you are converting to internal halyards, the second sheave at the rear of the masthead would be ideal for the topping lift. You'll need the double exit blocks on both sides of the mast, one pair for the main and TL and the other for the 2 headsail halyards.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 02/07/2009 : 10:18:21

Look at other boats in your marina that have internal halyards and how they are set up. I've seen quite a few with the double sheave exit blocks at the bottom of the mast. Maybe someone on the forum here can post a pic of their set-up for you.
I've never cut holes in my mast before, but my guess is that you would mark the cut-out you want to make, drill a hole at each corner, saw or cut between the drilled holes to make the opening, being careful not to cut any wiring. Then file the corners square. Insert the sheave device making sure it fits properly, then drill the 4 screw holes. I should think you would want to do this with the mast down.
Another option is to cut single exit slots higher up the mast and bring the halyards down to blocks attached to a mast step plate under the mast. If you already have the mast step plate, this might work better for you.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/07/2009 : 12:04:12

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Are concerns with weakening the mast real?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">If I were doing this for two double-blocks, one on each side (as I presume you're planning to do), I would put them at different levels on the mast so the cutouts aren't opposite each other, for strength purposes. It would look sorta asymmetric with the lines exiting at different levels, but I'd feel better about it.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 02/07/2009 12:08:42

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2009 : 08:30:11

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Happy D
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">in order to swith from 2 to 4 halyards <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Why? To add a topping lift? 
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Bingo! I would like a topping lift on the boom, and it would be nice to have a spare halyard to act as topping lift on the whiskerpole, or to use as jib halyard if I ever get crazy enough to try flying a chute. I know I would need a proper crane etc. then, but at least having a Halyard in place would be a bonus. Plus I think it would clean up the base of the mast a little.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2009 : 08:38:31

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dmpilc
 Look at other boats in your marina that have internal halyards and how they are set up. I've seen quite a few with the double sheave exit blocks at the bottom of the mast. Maybe someone on the forum here can post a pic of their set-up for you...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Good ideas, but right now, there are no boats at the marina, and everyone stores with their mast down. If I'm doing this, it will be done before spring launch.

Your process is similar to what I was imagining, only a few different steps.
<ul><li>lower mast</li><li>remove wiring & electronics</li><li>install conduit</li> <li>install exit blocks</li> <li>rewire</li> <li>install halyards</li> <li>install lights & electronics</li></ul>

Everything I've read on this says that you should put all wiring in a conduit if you switch to internal halyards in order to prevent chafe and wires getting hung up on halyards. It would ruin your whole day to pull the wires out of a masthead wind insturument as you raised sail. [url="http://www.diy-boat.com/content/view/188/49/"]Installing a conduit in a mast.[/url]

I agree with the idea of off-setting the exit blocks, but have also seen websites where they shrug and say it will be OK if the blocks are at the same level. Couls anyone post a pic of the base of their mast (with internal Halyards) so I can at least see what I'm looking at?

Thanks again guys!

Edited by - Prospector on 02/09/2009 08:41:48

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2009 : 09:15:55

Are you running halyards back to the cockpit now? One other thought, you should measure the depth of the double sheave blocks and the diameter of your mast. Depending on the size of the blocks you have/buy, there may not be room to place them opposite each other at the same level.

Edited by - on

Patrice C25
1st Mate

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78 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2009 : 10:38:54

HI,
Just a little note, as mentionned before, drill 4 holes, then cut in between .... but LEAVE the round cornerS. This is for stress relief in the material. If you don't want to see crack starting in the corners after a while.
Best way to stop a crack in a material, drill a hole at it's end.

Edited by - on

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