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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Regulator for the Honda 8

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5318 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/04/2008 : 23:39:20

Does anybody know of a good supplier for Honda 8 HP parts? I've recently found that while there is more than enough voltage and current from the engine while charging, the battery does not completely recharge. I have to use the solar panels to finish the job.

When I tested the voltage from the engine last week, it goes up to about 15 -16 volts, and there's a large AC component on the DC. AC for extended periods can be quite harmful to the battery.

I'm looking to replace the regulator and would like to be sure to get the official, factory authorized parts.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3410 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2008 : 05:32:46

I have limited electrical smarts. If as you say there is more than enough voltage and current from the engine while it is charging and you have readings of 15-16 volts when testing the engine, I do not understand why you believe the regulator is faulty. How long are you running the engine ? My thought is that it is the last 10% of charging the battery that may take a much longer time for it to come back up to full power. Is it possible that there is nothing wrong with the outboard charging circuit/components but that it just takes a lot longer to charge the last 10% or so ? My thought is that the solar panel, while it may be charging continuously at a much lower charging rate than what the outboard can initially provide, the solar panel can charge each day for at least 6 hrs or more and that is what helps get the battery to 100%. Then again....my electrical knowledge is limited.

Edited by - OLarryR on 08/05/2008 05:34:35

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2008 : 07:14:11

I've looked for Honda parts, and all I have found is the manufacturer [url="http://www.honda-marine.com/index.aspx"]Honda-Marine's website [/url]which takes you to Hondas-Marine dealers. They certainly have the right parts. There's one in Bridgeport, for example.

Edit - But to know what parts to get, you would have to use the [url="http://www.repairmanual.com/marine/4/12882"]shop manual[/url] for the O/B.

Edited by - JohnP on 08/05/2008 07:18:29

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2008 : 08:04:40

Dealers. Bridgeport. If you go down around Stamford, I bought that motor from John Herman Marine on Shippan Point (S. from Exit 8). I'd call the dealer--that precise regulator might not be on the shelf.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 08/05/2008 08:05:42

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5318 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2008 : 09:12:00

Larry -
Your thought on the old 80-20 rule, as applied to battery charging, is probably a good one. This makes me think there may not be a problem.

John -
I did purchase the shop manual recently from Hull's online and it has all the part numbers. In it, they recommend a continuity test for the regulator, which is not a full test of the unit, but may be able to show a defect.

So before I spend somewhere around $100-$200 (wild guess) for a new part, it would pay to do the continuity test.

After I penned my original note, I was able to get several dealer links from the Honda Marine website.

I dropped a line to the Bridgeport outfit to see whether I can get the part locally. They're near Cat'n's Cove. On Dave's advice, I'll also give the Stamford folks a call as well.

Thanks all . . . .

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2008 : 10:09:32

Bruce,
Did you look at the signal on an oscilloscope? Just wondering how you determined there was a large AC component present. The charging regulator on the Honda 8 is pretty primitive and basically flips the negative portion of the cycle and then clips the positive and negative to something resembling 15-16 DC volts. So it probably does have a pretty good AC component. It might be better to check the DC current it is providing when hooked up to your battery. I believe it provides about 5 amps at half throttle. If it is not creating interference when you run your electronics I would not worry about the small amount of AC voltage. Filtering the voltage further would require additional electronic components and, since the regulator is suppose to be used only for charging, it does not need to be that clean.

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5318 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2008 : 23:46:58

Joe -
Thanks for the sketch on this, you are right, looking at the Honda circuitry, there's no filtering. I wish I had a 'scope, but I never found one at a garage sale.

I tested the circuit using a 1000 microfarad 25V capacitor in series with my voltmeter. Since the 'cap' blocks DC, the remaining voltage is the AC component.

On a 16 V DC feed I got about 6V. Since this is an RMS reading, the peak voltage is apprx 8+ V. This seems pretty hot.

I plan to pull the regulator module tomorrow and perform the continuity check they describe in the manual. I'm hopeful this will give me a clue, then I can go from there.

The main issue I'm seeing is that while running the engine charging circuit, I am getting furious bubbling of the electrolyte in the battery (this is explosive hydrogen gas) which is venting under the starboard settee into the cabin. I really hate those explosions down below..... ....and it can't be too good for the battery, as it can "boil off" the electrolyte over time.

My next thought is to put a 12 V, 25 W light bulb in series with the engine charging circuit to keep the charging current down below around 2 Amps.

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 08/06/2008 : 09:12:23

If the electrolyte is boiling I would be concerned also. Some boiling off would be expected, I suppose, but if you feel it is excessive you are right to look into it. Take a look at the current being generated and you might have a better idea if it is over-charging. My Honda 8 has a fuse in the charging circuit which I believe is a 5 Amp fuse but I have never checked the batteries while underway to see if they are boiling. The current seems pretty small to me. Might be worth a call to the manufacturer.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/06/2008 : 10:12:14

FWIW, I don't think I added a drop of water to the battery on that boat in the five years I had that engine--it was always full. Maybe Bill V.A. dropped the engine into the water...

Edited by - on

Frank Law
Navigator

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USA
159 Posts

Response Posted - 08/06/2008 : 12:04:48

I have an 8hp 4 stroke honda 2002, and I am now trying to check out the the alternatorto see if it is charging..I put a voltmeter on the battery posts and it read 3 volts with motor running..With motor leads diconnected it still was 3 volts..= battery dead or needs charging..With leads disconnected There is no voltage on the chargng leads..Is this right? IF not what is the right procedure for measuring alternator output.. also where is fuse in charging circuit..

Frank Law
About Time 3519
83 ,sr ,swk

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 08/06/2008 : 13:08:18

Frank,
If you want to see if the charging circuit is working, hook it up to a <i><b>known good battery </b> </i> and check the current being produced. If no current is present the charging coil is probably dead. If the battery is bad it may have shorts or opens which would hinder the ability to read the charging circuits current. To check the current you can unhook the positive lead coming from the engine (at the battery) and connect the positive meter lead to the wire and the negative lead to the positive terminal of the battery. That is the meter must be in series with the battery and engine, not parralel. Put the meter in amp mode on the 10 amp scale and run the engine at about half throttle. It should register some current. If it does not there is a good chance the circuit is non-functional. If your battery is only reading 3 volts I doubt it is recoverable.

The battery is at the top of this drawing and the engine is represented on the bottom left side.

Edited by - Sloop Smitten on 08/06/2008 13:09:05

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 08/06/2008 : 14:29:35

You are getting the furious bubbling because the voltage is too goshdarn HIGH.

15-16V is for equalizing batteries, not for charging them.

Forget the stuff about the AC component, find out why your charging voltage is WAY TOO HIGH. It should be, for the trickle charger on the outboard engine, about 13.8 to 14.2 V DC max.

The 80/20 rule works, for sure, and the last 10% is almost impossible to get into your batteries from an automotive charging regimen. But if there's no battery left from severe overcharging, what the heck...doesn't matter.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5318 Posts

Response Posted - 08/06/2008 : 20:09:50

Stu -
I checked the voltage again today and the DC component is wa-a-a-ay up there in the 15.5 volt range. I didn't check the current, but you'd guess it's probably somewhere around the full rating of the coil, 12 Amps.

The regulator/rectifier continuity check is my next step and I may have time to check it tomorrow.

For now, I've turned off the battery switch so that when I'm running the engine, it is not connected to the battery, and my two 18W solar panels are keeping the battery topped off just fine.

So Dave, I don't know whether Bill dropped the engine in the drink. I do know the charging coil is working fine, but the regulator/rectifier is behaving strangely.

It's like my grandma, Nana Rosanadanna used to say, it's always something . . . !

Edited by - on

Frank Law
Navigator

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USA
159 Posts

Response Posted - 08/07/2008 : 12:31:40

thanks Joe
I'll check with amp meter nextime at the boat probably next week..

Frank Law
About Time 3519
1983 swk,sr

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