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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

hank-on Genoa to furler

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stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/19/2008 : 16:57:56

What if you had a C250 with a 110 on a roller furler - but you wanted to race and had a hank-on 150Genoa from a C25 - how would you go about using the 150 genoa without modifications to the sail?

It would be especially for the downwind leg.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2008 : 17:13:52

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by stampeder
 What if you had a C250 with a 110 on a roller furler - but you wanted to race and had a hank-on 150Genoa from a C25 - how would you go about using the 150 genoa without modifications to the sail?

It would be especially for the downwind leg.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
First, I presume a C-25 150 is going to be bigger than 150% on a C-250 because the 250's mast is further forward, so the foretriangle is smaller. The clew will be higher because the 250 forestay is more vertical. How about the luff-length? You could conceivably rig an inner forestay--it would have to clear the furler drum and swivel, so it would not be the full height of the mast, and its anchors should be able to take a fair amount of tension to keep the luff fairly straight. If you have a CDI, your spare halyard might work--the angle will be off toward the top. You could mount a block for a new halyard, positioned for the inner forestay. It all sounds doable, but dubious. I think even the standard rig 150 will be too tall.

Do you plan on removing the 110 when racing? If not, it will be a big obstruction spoiling the airflow over your genny.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 06/19/2008 17:26:03

Stardog
Captain

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USA
319 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2008 : 18:18:08

I really don't see a practical way to keep a roller furler on and switch it out with, or add another jib sail for the downwind leg. Casual racers will leave their roller furler on, but they don't switch out while racing. Serious racers keep a couple of hank on jib sails and use whatever is appropriate at the time. Have you considered a spinnaker for downwind? You'll get much better performance. If you're short-handed you might also consider an asymetrical spinnaker, they're easier to handle and will also point higher.

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stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2008 : 20:20:19

The C250 is not my boat so I'm trying to find a downwind solution without spending any money on his behalf. I have hank-on sails on my C25 and was wondering if there was a way to use my genoa on his boat.
We raced the other night and I think we did okay up wind but downwind wasn't too good.

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2008 : 21:09:07

I guess downwind you could hoist your 150 like an asymetrical using just his spare halyard--it's a little heavy for that, but... Are you racing JAM, and is this PHRF? This game could affect your status and rating. Are you going off the wind a little, jibing downwind to get better speed?

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stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2008 : 22:13:24

yes, yes and yes.

I'm thinking of the genoa because we don't have a spin. Furl the jib and fly the genoa. Most of the boats we raced against have spins or at least larger jibs.

Edited by - stampeder on 06/19/2008 22:14:01

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2008 : 22:19:59

So you mean NO, yes, and yes.

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2008 : 08:21:40

PHRF Racing.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2008 : 08:49:33

But it's not Jib And Main. And this would not be a stock jib for PHRF purposes.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 06/20/2008 08:51:22

Stardog
Captain

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USA
319 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2008 : 10:14:48

Very thoughtful of you to try to help out the team with a larger sail. I don't think you have very many options. If the owner isn't going to get a spinnaker, then you're going to have to make due with a jib. The obvious choice for him as a boat owner would be to put a larger sail on the furler. You don't get the same performance upwind in heavy air (roller furling sails are notorious for poor shape when they are only partially unfurled), but you always get better performance down-wind.

The last thing to consider is that you are racing PHRF and the 110% jib configuration has been figured into the calculations, this boat should already be placing fairly in the standings as it is.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2008 : 12:40:01

Take off all the hanks. Use a pendant to tie down the tack somewhere on the bow. Hoist it using your jib halyard. Fly it like a drifter. It is not attached in any way to the forestay. It will balloon out somewhat like an asym.

Light wind, beam reach to run only.

This would need to be reported to your PHRF committee.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2008 : 14:58:23

scotch tape?

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stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2008 : 15:02:49

Okay Steve, now we know.
If you want, I'll bring my genoa on wednesday.

My general thoughts re the race committee - Catalina 25/250 is class legal to fly a white 150.

Edited by - stampeder on 06/20/2008 15:04:22

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2008 : 15:17:12

Yes it will be legal but the PHRF comittee has measurements for my sails only at this point. Also my jib halyard is in use, it's holding up the top roller. However we could lower the jib halyard, attach a block to it? Using you 150 is not a bad idea, and I would love to try it, but maybe we should test sail it first? If we find it gets in the way and slows us down (raising it at every downwind) then maybe it's not going to be worth the PHRF readjustment? I see us using it as a spinakker almost.

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 06/20/2008 15:18:20

Stardog
Captain

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USA
319 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2008 : 10:11:11

I say go out on the water and test it, try each sail and use a knotmeter so you can measure relative speed. Then calculate your finish times with each sail, using the appropriate PHRF rating. Something to be aware of is that the sail shape is not going to be your normal 150 jib shape, because the sail is not going to be attached at the luff. It will be interesting to see if the change in shape either improves or hinders performance.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2008 : 10:26:14

Off the wind it could well be better (like an asym)--upwind it'll probably be a dog--you'll drop it (like an asym). Does that mean you're still a "white sail" boat--I suspect not.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 06/21/2008 10:27:09

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2008 : 10:29:11

I would pole it out anytime I could.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2008 : 11:12:40

I don't know how the sails are attached, the last boat I raced (J92) had dual tracks so we could lower one sail while raising the other. If the furler has a track, maybe these could help: [url="http://www.desktopwings.com/RR-sailmaker-instructions.pdf"]Kiwi Slides[/url]

Edited by - on

Stardog
Captain

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USA
319 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2008 : 17:18:53

As Dave said, a whisker pole would be helpful. I've flown a jib by three corned only, and it wouldn't point for doo-doo. Down wind may be another story, the only way to know for sure it to go out and clock some runs. Remember it not only has to go faster but it has to correct-out better with the new PHRF rating than runs with your 110.

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