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Launch experience check

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americanrascal
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USA
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Initially Posted - 02/09/2008 : 06:17:24

I've pulled and launched our boat (Wing keel- Performance trailer)about 8 times over the past 3 years. Our ramps here are not particularly steep (maybe 25- 35% tops) . We learned immediately that the rope (strap) launch system seemed to be the only way to get the boat off the trailer. We literally must bury the trailer so that the entire hull is in the water and the trailer is virtually out of site. I haven't experienced any launch where I didn't get thoroughly soaked manipulating the boat off the trailer. (Soaped the skids also)

Is this typical to what you all experience? Am I missing an easier (and drier) approach to this? February launches on southern lakes have a tendency to be exhilarating with the water still cold.

Planning on doing the deed next weekend, the thought of getting in that cold water brings tears to my eyes-- but I sure want to get some wind in the sails.

Thoughts or advice?
Joe

Millennium Falcon
Hull 551
250 WK

Edited by - americanrascal on 02/09/2008 06:29:24

Chris Z
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Response Posted - 02/09/2008 : 07:32:38

Joe,

I understand what you are saying. I used to help my dad launch his C-22 every year. With the pads it was never easy or fun. Last year was my first launch of my C-25 which has rollers under it. I was told it was easier. We backed the boat down the ramp, and the cable to the winch tighened as the boat tried to slide back on the the trailer. This was even before we had it in the water. We backed it into the water,release the winch cable and floated the boat back of the trailer. The rollers did not need to be in very far at all. Even better was pulling the boat out. In the past with my Dad's 22 we had to muscle, push and pull to get it just right on the trailer. The retreival with the C-25 was so easy. being able to keep the front rollers visable, made the boat center on the trailer the first time. I did both with no rope or trailer extension.

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
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Response Posted - 02/09/2008 : 07:46:13

Joe,
I launch also using the strap, and have never gotten wet doing it. The key is having two people, and a set of family radios. Here's how my wife and I do it.

As the boat sits on the ramp, launch strap hooked up to the truck and tight, wheel chocks already pulled. I climb to the top of the trailer ladder. The wife gets in the truck, and turns her radio on. From atop of the ladder using the radio, I guide wife back down the ramp.

Once we get back far enough to float the boat I stop her and unhook the boat from the trailer strap, climb on deck, start the outboard and back clear of the trailer. Once clear of the trailer I call her on the radio and tell her to pull out.

She knows to pull the trailer up next to the chocks that we leave laying on the ramp. As I'm tying the boat up she will re-chock the trailer tires and backs the truck back close to the hitch.

By the time I have found a place to tie the boat up and return to the truck, all I have to do is guide her over the hitch ball, hook up the trailer to the truck, disconnect the launch strap, throw the strap and chocks in the truck and park.

Hope this helps.

Edited by - Tom Potter on 02/09/2008 07:55:03

americanrascal
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Response Posted - 02/09/2008 : 09:20:19

Tom and Chris - Both great concepts. The roller concept is a bit longer term project and have to size that up on a Performance trailer with a WK.

Tom, I may go ahead and give your approach a shot. I suppose your ramps up there are similar to ours in terms of slope and length.

That ladder is a bit narrow and I am a bit wide which makes me a nervous nellie, but hey I guess it would keep things dry. (Brings tears to my eyes just thinking about that cold water!) And lord knows I would never admit to being nervous about the wife backing the truck (at least publicly).

I have never been able to move the boat off the trailer with our Merc 9.9 and can't remember a time i haven't busted a gut pushing and shoving- especially if I don't get it deep enough. Too much friction on the bunks and other hardware I guess. Once its free and clear all is well. The dock is only a few feet from the ramp (but to the sides) so typically we just haul over to the dock once clear of the trailer using dock lines.

I will give it a shot. There's been discussion of a lift being installed here in the future (near term I hope). I wouldn't mind spending the bucks to make things easier having it dropped in.

Tom - do you totally bury the trailer out of site except for the winch remaining dry?

Thanks for your ideas.
Joe

Edited by - on

americanrascal
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Response Posted - 02/09/2008 : 09:24:02

Sorry to come back with another question I thought of after-- Tom-at what point in the process do you disconnect the strap and safety chain from the bow and transition from the ladder to the boat- thats quite a reach on mine?
(hate to pester you with technique questions but this might keep me from freezing)
Joe

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
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Response Posted - 02/09/2008 : 09:36:41

I usually go back until the front bunks go under. My thoughts are if I go back too far, the upper side of the wing will make contact with the bottom of the keel guide and cause it stick on the trailer. (does that make sense?) This also can causes problems on steep ramps.

Sometimes depending on the angle of the ramp I may need to go back a little farther.

If your not comfortable riding down on the ladder, you could go ahead and climb on the bow, and ride down on the boat. I like to leave the winch strap hooked to the boat until I'm in the water. Once in and floating you could climb back over and unhook. I was just thinking, you could run a separate line from the boat to the trailer and unstrap the winch strap before you go down. I think I'll try that next time myself.

Edited by - on

americanrascal
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Response Posted - 02/09/2008 : 10:18:30

Good ideas Tom- Will try.

The way mine is set up the keel guides are low and the keel can rise above them without catching on them so I luck out on that one.

If all goes well will try it next Saturday. Now its time for my most favorite job- putting on the bottom paint (ugh)
Joe

Edited by - on

Chris Z
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Response Posted - 02/09/2008 : 11:05:57

Joe,

My friend Jim is looking at converting his from bunks to rollers this summer. I will be sure and document it and take lots of pictures. We are going to look at buying the supplies through Champion Trailers. I don't think it is that big of a deal once the boat is off the trailer. Maybe a little welding. We are also looking at maybe putting the jacks under the hull and doing it that way.

Edited by - on

americanrascal
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Response Posted - 02/09/2008 : 11:32:26

Thanks Chris- will watch for it.
Joe

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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Response Posted - 02/09/2008 : 13:21:21

Joe,
We launch our WK in a somewhat different way from Tom, mostly because Rita's not too comfortable (yet) backing the boat down the ramp, same with running the boat by herself. If all goes well, I don't have to get wet, but in the event that I do, I bought a pair of [url="http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0005506810729a&type=product&cmCat=SEARCH&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&QueryText=neoprene+wader&N=4887&Ntk=Products&Ntx=mode+matchall&Nty=1&Ntt=neoprene+wader&noImage=0"]3mm neoprene chest waders from Cabelas [/url]for about $60. I didn't mind getting wet so much during the summer on a lake, but the Puget Sound is mighty cold. The waders make a huge difference if you do have to get wet, and it only takes a moment to get them on. Like you I'm kind of a wide load, but these waders fit very well.

What we do is similar to Tom's method, the chocking and strap procedures sound identical, but instead of one of us riding down on the ladder, I'll have Rita tend the bow & stern lines from the dock. I'll release the safety chain on the bow hook before backing down (presuming I don't forget) as well as the strap hook. I back down till the front pads are underwater, I learned the hard way that if the pads aren't submerged, [url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13603&SearchTerms=swimming"]you're in for a bad day[/url]. It's a bit disconcerting to see the trailer virtually disappear, but it's what needs to happen for it to work properly. Generally this enough to float the boat off the trailer, and she can walk the boat back and tie off to the dock cleats. If the boat hangs up for some reason, I'll slip on the waders and go shove it. I like Tom's idea very much, but Rita's just not comfortable enough yet for us to do it that way. Maybe by the end of this season.

I keep forgetting to bring some soap for the pads, but I think that'll make a big difference both getting the boat on and off the pads.

We have a checklist that we've written up, but I need to laminate it & bring a grease pencil or something so that we can tick off the various things that need to be done during the launch procedure (Windex on top of the mast is my most common thing to forget).

Edited by - delliottg on 02/09/2008 13:26:42

crystal_blue
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Response Posted - 02/09/2008 : 16:13:47

Are tow straps also needed occasionally to launch WBs? I know they sit lower on the trailer than WKs do, but it seems to me I've read accounts here of some WB owners using a tow strap.

Thanks--

--Jim

Edited by - on

americanrascal
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Response Posted - 02/09/2008 : 17:05:24

Jim- Can't speak to a WB launch- it might be easier as it sits lower and closer to the water. Maybe we can get someone else to chime in on that one. I've seen swing keeled Cat 25's launched here without the need for a strap launch so maybe its not necessary???

Its tough getting a wk off as high as they sit. With a short stem tongue on a Performance trailer a ramp on my lake here on the Piedmont in the south, unless you bury the trailer good and deep, and/or rope/strap launch you will be there for a while. But I have a friend here who has successfully launched with an old school bus that was attached and buried up to the rear brakes- lot of overhang on those old buses. So there is probably a pretty clear relationship between where the wheels are on the tow vehicle, the length of the tongue, angle of the ramp, depth of water at the ramp etc. They would all be relevant variables.

David - waders are a good idea. I have a pair at work, but generally on a launch here to get to the ladder with the pads below the water line, I'm about chest deep which would make them a bit risky (unless I tightrope walk the tongue- and I am pretty klutzy). All that said I might give it a try.(Your bad day story came right out of my life book)

Tom: While looking back at David's launch story, I noticed your caster wheel concept. I actually did that on my for my forward fixed wheel. Bought the steel fixed caster wheel (about 6"diameter) at Tractor Supply along with their strongest crank down tongue jack. Welded the 2 together with the wheel being removable from the jack with a pin. Welded up a heavy duty double mounting plate. Lots of versatility with it. Has worked great.

Thanks

Joe

Edited by - americanrascal on 02/09/2008 17:22:23

britinusa
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Response Posted - 02/09/2008 : 18:43:20

Jim, regarding the WB, we tried all sorts of methods to get JD afloat and back on the trailer: Tow strap, long tongue extension, but in the end we found it was easy to launch like a power boat! (Shields up )

Here's how we have done it the past few trips.
Launching:
Back down the ramp using the regular tow hitch (not the extension) and stop with the trailer wheels out of the water. Make sure the fenders are up on deck (else they will catch on the trailer guide poles) and run a docking line from the fwd cleat, inside the trailer guide pole and tie the end to another line run to the aft cleat (reduces the chance of dropping a line.)
Release the bow chain and winch strap.
Now Peggy will back the truck down the ramp and hit the breaks just before the truck tires get wet (not allowed!) at which point JD will slide gracefully out of the trailer and I'll be on the dock with both lines in hand to bring her to the dockside, pulling the fenders down into place.
Peggy pulls truck and trailer out (but won't navigate it around the parking lot yet!)

Retrieval, a little more complex but taken easy.
While Peggy is blowing the ballast, I line the truck up on the ramp, run out a couple of feet of winch strap and prep the boat pretty much in the reverse order of the launch: Put the fenders up, but I keep the two dock lines separate.
I lower the trailer bow bunk! It drops about 4" or 5". That, combined with the empty ballast allows the bow to slide up on the bow bunk when we walk the boat onto the trailer.
Next I attach the winch strap and snug the boat up. However, at this point the bow eye is lower than the bow snubbers on the trailer. Peggy pulls the boat out a few feet and she settles down on the bunks. We back down the ramp again so that I can snug the boat back again but now the strap is between the bow snubbers.
Ready to pull the boat. We pull out and let any ballast drain out. Once on level ground I hit the breaks and JD snugs up beautifully and we're ready to pull to the staging area. Then raise the bow bunk to the travel position.

Obviously won't work on shallow ramps, we resort to either the extended launch tongue or the tow strap method.

Regarding the tow strap method be very very very wary of the trailer 5th wheel! We have bent two trailer jacks when they hit a bump while using the tow strap! Tom has a nice 5th wheel and has a pick of it somewhere.

Paul

Edited by - on

John Russell
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Response Posted - 02/09/2008 : 19:21:04

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by britinusa
 ... Peggy pulls the boat out a few feet and she settles down on the bunks. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Kinda strange time for Peggy to take a nap, isn't it?

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 02/09/2008 : 22:32:16

We strap launch using 4" strap. Last launch we used 70'! We do not have anyone on the boat. Instead we have two people on the dock that parallels the ramp. One has a line tied to the stern and the other a line tied to the bow. As the boat starts to float they pull the boat back and then to the dock.

When we retrieve we tie a long line to the mast tower on the trailer. We sink the trailer and then I get on the boat at the dock and use the line to pull the boat onto the trailer.

We had to strap launch our C22 so we are used to it. I have a special hitch the is made for strap as well.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 02/09/2008 22:33:16

britinusa
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Response Posted - 02/10/2008 : 10:12:45

Randy, is the twist in the strap to prevent flapping at high speed

And that does not look like a SS pin!

paul

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 02/10/2008 : 14:54:06

Hey Paul, that twist is sewn in. I went without the SS pin because I would have had to sell the boat to afford it!

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
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Response Posted - 02/11/2008 : 19:12:50

Paul, I'd like to view a video of your retrieval procedure if possible. Not sure how many degrees my launch ramp is but I have to back down all the way until my back bumper starts to have water coming over it. By that time the muffler is bubbling below and I step out of the truck both feet in the water. Note that I have the same F150, but a 2X4 which is about 5 inches lower.

I don't understand your method of lowering the front bunk(s) and certainly don't understand how you can raise the bunks once the boat is sitting on them. I have no way of doing that on mine I believe. Maybe you could supply a picture?

I think rollers would really be nice for a WB.

Another question I had is that I unplug my lights before submerging my trailer. Is that required?

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 02/11/2008 19:15:41

Tom Potter
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Response Posted - 02/11/2008 : 19:23:01

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Blackburn
 Another question I had is that I unplug my lights before submerging my trailer. Is that required?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

When launching in salt water, not only do I unplug them. I take them off. My trailer tail lights have a plug just a couple inches from the taillight housing and only 2 wing nuts hold them on. I discovered its much easier to remove them than deal with the salt corrosion.

Edited by - Tom Potter on 02/11/2008 19:23:23

britinusa
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Response Posted - 02/11/2008 : 20:04:16

Steve, we're not launching/retrieving again till late April, major mod on house is crimping our time. I'll show this to Peggy and perhaps she'll get the urge to sail sooner

Regarding the bunk: Our trailer has a bow bunk that just supports about a foot back from where the hull flattens out from the bow. The bunk is held in place by two bolts within a square tube vertical housing.
I have been thinking of drilling a hole through the entire thing and using a 1/2" pin to make it easy to raise and lower the bunk.

Paul.

Edited by - on

Chris Z
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Response Posted - 02/11/2008 : 21:07:06

Steve,

Rollers are the way to go. I will try and put together a video in April when I launch.

As far as the lights, I upgraded to LED lights. Much brighter and longer lasting. No need to mess with them at all.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
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Response Posted - 02/11/2008 : 21:20:40

Was thinking of putting LEDs. So with the rollers I guess you just roll the boat onto the trailer by pulling with the winch? Must be nice for bottom painting too.

Anyone can suggest a Wobble roller kit that can fit on my Trail-Rite trailer that would fit over where my bunks are bolted?

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 02/11/2008 21:36:02

John Russell
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Response Posted - 02/11/2008 : 22:33:19

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Blackburn
 Was thinking of putting LEDs. So with the rollers I guess you just roll the boat onto the trailer by pulling with the winch? Must be nice for bottom painting too.

Anyone can suggest a Wobble roller kit that can fit on my Trail-Rite trailer that would fit over where my bunks are bolted?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Steve, Aren't you gonna moor your boat? Why spend the money on a trailer upgrade for one launch and one retrieval a year?

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
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Response Posted - 02/12/2008 : 02:01:30

I think its winter cabin fever that's getting to me! I'm going crazy here. I just want to get on with boat projects. :-)

You're right about the wobble rollers probably a waste of money. However for the LED I found a nice kit of 2 submersible trailer lights for $69. If it get a little hotter this week-end I think I'll install these.

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 02/12/2008 02:01:51

Chris Z
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Response Posted - 02/12/2008 : 07:21:10

Steve,

I only used the winch for the last couple of feet. The key with the rollers is the ability of these to swing up and down to match the contour of the hull. Instead of having a bunk at the back that is sweeping upwards, the aft end of the last roller assembly is swung down before I back the trailer in the water. I understand you ony launch once a year, however my friend had to pull his boat a month before me because of the bunks.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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Response Posted - 02/12/2008 : 09:43:03

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Another question I had is that I unplug my lights before submerging my trailer. Is that required?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I concur with Tom, you should remove them. I only forget to do this about 1/3 of the time, upgrading to LED's would probably be a good idea. If nothing else, I've bought some better quick disconnects which I plan to install the next time it's not pouring down rain over the weekend (maybe June or so).

Edited by - on

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