Association Forum - Replacing trailer support boards

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Replacing trailer support boards

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

Member Avatar

USA
4479 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/26/2007 : 19:29:54

I was going over my trailer today getting it ready for when we pull SL out of the marina for the winter. I noticed my right rear support board (not sure what the right term is, but it's the roughly one foot square carpeted boards the boat sits on while trailering) had a broken bolt. The bolt had sheared at the back of the board leaving the whole thing free to rotate. I'm not sure when this happened, but I've got a good idea. Our last launch was kind of rough, complete with the trailer jack collapsing because of my stupidity, and I suspect the bolt sheared when that happened.

While fixing that one I was dismayed to see the condition of the carriage bolt that came out of the board, and the board itself seems like it might be due for replacement. I took a look at all the other ones and they're in similar states of rust & general disrepair. So now I want to build new boards, replace all the rusting brackets (why would someone use non-galvanized steel on a trailer?), and all the hardware with new galvanized bolts, brackets, etc.

Has anyone done this? What did you use to make the new boards with? I'm thinking about replacing the carpet with HDPE boards instead. The plastic won't retain water & shouldn't contribute to the deterioration of the new boards. I'm also thinking decent plywood, two thicknesses of 3/4" epoxied together & epoxy sealed and painted for UV protection.

I'd appreciate any experiences you might have and advice you can offer.

Thanks,

David
C-250 Mainsheet Editor

Sirius Lepak
1997 C-250 WK TR #271 --Seattle area Port Captain --

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 10/27/2007 : 01:46:56

I had that same issue and replaced the support pads. I opted for 2 thicknesses of 3/4 “ plywood with wood glue holding them together. Replaced all nuts and bolts with stainless steel versions. I chose not to seal the wood in any way. My figuring was that the supports take a lot of stress and even flex so epoxy would just crack. Plus the replacement project was easy and, if needed every 6-8 years, is no big deal. I do not believe HDPE has sufficient strength.

Here is the basic support pad:

Here it is covered with marine bunk material affixed with stainless steel staples:

Note that I am systematically replacing all trailer hardware with stainless steel components. Also note that I left two edges of the pads uncovered in order to facilitate drying/airing. Entire project took about 4 hours. I had the home improvement center do all of the cutting so all I did was glue, drill, and staple.

Before you remove the old pads use a Sharpie to mark the exact placement of the brackets on the support pole so you get the angles correct when it all goes back together!!

Edited by - Nautiduck on 10/27/2007 01:52:39

britinusa
Web Editor

Members Avatar

USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 10/27/2007 : 07:37:23

Have you considered using some of that Recyled Plastic Deck material for the bunks? I've seen it available in 6" widths. The Rot problem would just go away!

Paul

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 10/27/2007 : 17:33:45

If your trailer has "bunk" boards, the boards the boat sits on while on the trailer and which support most of its length, they are 14' 2x6s. I replaced mine with treated lumber and galvinized nuts and bolts.

The carpet replacement is 10" wide bunk carpeting available at practically all marine supply outlets. It usually comes in 2 grades. I wouldn't get the best stuff available but get good carpet. You'll need to replace it every several years no matter what you buy.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

Members Avatar

USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 10/27/2007 : 18:58:52

Well, I've decided to take Paul's advice & look into the composite decking material. I think I've found some I can use, I just can't get it today, the stores around here that carry it would be closed by the time I get there. I looked at Trex at HD, but they only carried the 6" stuff, and I envisioned creating a hinge point if I tried to join them together somehow. I picked up the rest of the stuff I need there including carpeting, hardware (galvanized, sorry Randy, I know that's heresy in your book, but my trailer simply isn't in the water all that long and a good hosing down seems to keep the rest of the trailer in pretty good shape), monel staples (couldn't find stainless, and they don't make galvanized that I could find), and various other bits & bobs I think I might need.

Now, on the problems encountered so far. I've been able to remove exactly two of the bunk board bolts (the smaller bolts holding the boards to the brackets), and exactly zero of the bracket bolts. I can't get a single one to budge, they're all rusted solid. Heat doesn't work, although I haven't tried MAPP gas, propane doesn't touch it, WD-40 was ineffective, although I've got a bunch of it on each bolt right now while taking a break from the action. Maybe it'll loosen up a couple of them, but I'm not holding my breath. I think I see a long series of grinder & Sawzall cuts in front of me to get these things off. It occurs to me that it might be simpler to just cut the 2" galvanized pipe off below the bolts & redrill each of them? The problem with that is wanting to reuse the 2" angle brackets, which means I'd still have to cut off all the bolts anyway, so might as well leave the pipe as it is so I don't have to change the heights of anything.

Anyone have advice for removing the bolts? I only have a propane torch available for heat, but a pretty complete shop otherwise.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

Members Avatar

USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 10/27/2007 : 19:16:11

[url="http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_34573_34573"]Nut Splitters. [/url]

Paul.

Edited by - britinusa on 10/27/2007 19:16:36

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 10/28/2007 : 00:35:42

DO NOT CUT THE ROUND SUPPORT PIPE.

Use a Sawzall or Dremel with a cutoff disc. A Dremel will go right through those bolts.

Are you certain that Trex has the same compression strength as plywood? The artificial decking we use at the club is not structurally strong.

If your store does not carry Arrow SS staples then you need another store.

Also, while I may seem like a Stainless Steel evangelist there is a reason for it. The galvanized bolts on your trailer are so corroded that you have to grind them off. Stainless wont do that. In the long run stainless is more cost-effective than galvanized.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 10/28/2007 00:42:16

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/28/2007 : 02:39:48

When I did my pads last year I used concrete floor work pad under my carpet. I have been very pleased with the tiny bit of compression it provides to the pad and its ability to drain water.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 10/28/2007 : 11:10:14

Nice touch Frank!

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

Members Avatar

USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 10/28/2007 : 12:34:22

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Also, while I may seem like a Stainless Steel evangelist there is a reason for it. The galvanized bolts on your trailer are so corroded that you have to grind them off. Stainless wont do that. In the long run stainless is more cost-effective than galvanized.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Randy,
All the galvanized stuff on my trailer is just fine, it's where they used crap hardware (basically above the round pipes) that it's rusted solid or rotting wood. Also my launching wheel assembly is a rusted piece of crap (while still structurally sound, but it's on my list too, just not today).

The Trex stuff I'm going to be using is structurally similar to grown wood, it's solid all the way through (some are not), and I'll be using a double thickness bolted together.

Why shouldn't I cut the pipe? If the bolt splitters that Paul recommended don't work, cutting the ends off the pipe is my fall back position. As long as they're at least a foot long inside there (and I haven't checked this yet), I don't see a problem with cutting off two inches or so & redrilling them. I'll be putting through bolts in instead of two shorter bolts. Those are nearly impossible to get a wrench on the inside head.

Whoever came up with this particular design never thought through the problem to the other end, maintenance. I've been diligent about washing down my trailer, it's only sat overnight once when we spent a night on an island with the trailer in a parking lot. I doubt that a single instance could cause this much corrosion, and the PO & PPO sailed it almost strictly on fresh water (one trip to the San Juan's that I'm aware of). The PO is an experimental aircraft builder, I'm sure he understood the maintenance issue. I think this is just bad design.

Oh, and you might want to look into using [url="http://www.lenntech.com/Monel.htm"]Monel[/url] instead of SS.

Edited by - delliottg on 10/28/2007 12:39:47

Ray Seitz
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
416 Posts

Response Posted - 10/28/2007 : 12:47:49

Randy has a good point about the properties of plastic composition boards such as Trex. I am not sure how these materials perform with compressive loads but I know they do not have identical properties as wood. For example, Trex (at last check) does not come in structural dimensions like 2x8 or 2x12 because it does not have the strength to be utilized in that type of loading. Plywood on the other hand is stronger because of the ply's. My bunks are all 2x6 and I would change them out with the same material, unless I was ceriian the new material was superior, for fear of failure.

Edited by - Ray Seitz on 10/28/2007 12:50:53

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 10/28/2007 : 14:22:00

I figured those nuts and bolts above the pipe were galvanized. I had to do the exact same thing as you, those bolts were completely corroded. For mine just twisting the nut and the bolt in opposite direction broke most of them off. The rest I used a saw. I am certain a saw or cutting wheel on a Dremel will do the job for you.

My recommendation to not cut the pipe is that it isn't necessary and messing with the basic structure of the trailer is asking for trouble. Get those bolts off.

On my galvanized trailer all of the galvanized metals are just fine EXCEPT FOR THE BOLTS be they U bolts, or carriage bolts, or whatever. The problem is that the bolts are galvanized and then, when the nuts are applied, the galvanized material is scraped off the threads and the bolt rusts and the rust spreads. Every galvanized bolt on my 2000 Trailrite trailer has rust. There is no rust on any of the frame. It is the bolt-nut action that makes galvanized bolts problematic.

I think that Trailrite and other companies use galvanized bolts because they are cheaper than stainless. But then they are not the poor souls who end up having to cut the corroded bolts off!! Stainless costs more but, on my trailer, all of the bolts and nuts above that pipe are stainless and I will never again have to use a saw to get them off. Priceless.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 10/28/2007 14:23:37

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

Members Avatar

USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 10/28/2007 : 18:02:33

Taking a break from the action. I've decided to go with 2x12 pressure treated lumber. For one thing, the composite is impossible to find w/o special ordering it. I talked to all the decking places I knew of within about a 15 mile radius. They all "carry" it, but it's all special order, nobody has it in stock. Nearly all of them recommended pressure treated 2x12's as a solution. If nothing else, I'm going to put these together with far more easily removed hardware in case I have to do this again. No more carriage bolts that spin, no more double bolts that are *nearly* impossible to get to, all the bolts will have hex heads so you can get a wrench on them, and the bolts through the tops of the pipes with be 3-1/2" x 1/2" through bolts so you can easily adjust them.

I've figured out a method for getting the bolts off, but it's time consuming. I cut one of the pad bolts off so I can rotate the pad out of the way, then I can get a wrench sort of on the head of the bolt inside the pipe, so far this has been enough to get two of the bolts out. Once I've got one out, I can wiggle a 3/4" socket onto the other bolt, feed an extension through, and get a ratchet wrench on that end, and a box on the other. I've been at this all afternoon, and so far, I have two pads off and I'm only bleeding on two hands. Thank god for sawzalls & grinders.

I get the bolts out of the pads by just ripping them through the wood with my hands or on only one occasion, a wrecking bar, it's frightening how easy it is to do. They only used 3/8" bolts to attach the pads to the brackets, with no washers, so they had almost pulled through anyway. These will be replaced with 1/2" bolts with washers. Anyone reading this, I'd take a look at your pads, especially on older trailers. If this is how they're coming stock from Catalina's supplier, they should be ashamed of themselves.

Edited by - delliottg on 10/28/2007 18:05:20

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3072 Posts

Response Posted - 10/28/2007 : 19:12:08

"WD-40 was ineffective"

Agree. Nice light general purpose oil but IMHO pretty ineffective as a penetrating oil.
Products like Kroil, PB Blaster, Liquid Wrench work a lot better at dissolving rust.
PB Blaster is my current favorite.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

Members Avatar

USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 10/28/2007 : 20:45:32

I'd heard of liquid wrench before, but not the other two. I need to make at least one more trip to the hardware store before this is over, I'll look for the PB Blaster.

Thanks for the tip.

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.