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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4300 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/28/2007 : 07:23:43

Is it normal when buying a boat through a broker that you're not allowed to have a face to face meeting between the sellor, buyer, and the broker?

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GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2007 : 08:02:40

If the seller wants it that way... But the broker hooked us up with our seller, who took us out for a sail on Passage--before we'd made an offer.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 09/28/2007 08:05:59

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4300 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2007 : 08:40:00

The broker I'm having to deal through is telling me that it's just not done that way.

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2007 : 08:47:44

Perhaps the broker doesn't want you in a position to cut a deal with the owner for less that he/she thinks capable of getting.

Val on Calista # 3936, Patchogue, N.Y.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4300 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2007 : 09:20:41

I would think that might be the case in a situation where the selling price of the boat is high enough to get above the minimum brokerage fee but in this case that won't happen. The broker told me she's getting a flat fee no matter what the selling price.

Edited by - GaryB on 09/28/2007 09:22:26

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2007 : 09:57:58

the broker I dealt with was very protective of his selling client. I did't speak with the seller until after the deal was concluded.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2007 : 10:05:44

Ya, 10% of not much is not much! The min is usually around $1500, although brokers do deals where the seller is buying up through them. Sellers sometimes go through brokers so the deal is completely hands-off and the buyer won't be bugging the seller about "DPO" stuff, engine problems, etc. I, on the other hand, have been in touch with my C-25's buyer and even his buyer. Draw your own conclusions.......

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4300 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2007 : 11:19:28

Dave,

I can see your point but the owners address is on the contract so if I wanted to contact him I could but I wouldn't and the fee on this one is over $2,300.00.

I guess it just depends on the broker.

Thank you!

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2007 : 13:51:41

The other thing that happens is the broker becomes a "buffer" during negotiations, preserving reason and taking the pressure off both sides--allowing time for responses, etc. The same happens in real estate, where the pressures and emotions can be much higher. I've sold boats both ways, and did better (net) through a broker. On a house, I entertained some private offers that (thankfully) didn't pan out, and then sold through a broker for a whole bunch more. (Private buyers expect to save the broker's fees and then some, so the negotiations start there.) That said, $2300 seems a bit rich for a C-25 (unless you turn out to be one of those "buyers from hell.")

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 09/28/2007 13:53:56

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2007 : 14:43:29

Gary,
I just emailed a long time boat salesman friend who said, "Never heard of that one... we have all parties together often... ". So I'd be cautious!

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2007 : 15:27:43

Is this the $11,5 boat? If I were selling it and had to give the broker 20%, I wouldn't be so ready to budge off the price either. I wonder if the seller is really the one that is sticking to the price or is it the broker? It just sounds wierd. I think the broker is trying to hide the seller from you to avoid the loss of commission. You're essentially paying the brokers fee. Not a bad deal for the seller , get somebody else to sell your boat for you and have somebody else pay for it.

No matter, though. I've always felt that something's real value is whatever I am willing to spend on it. I really don't care who gets the money. If it's worth $11,5 to you, then write the check. If not, find another boat.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4300 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2007 : 15:35:07

This has nothing to do with the $11.5K boat.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2007 : 17:06:17

The various brokers we talked to when looking for our boat invariably kept the seller's contact information private even when I asked to speak to them. On the other side of the coin,I spoke with several private owners who'd taken their boat out of brokerages after having it sit for months & months with no offers. A couple found out after the fact that their brokers were inflating the prices of their boats unrealistically and guessed that they were trying to inflate their commissions. We made offers on 3-4 brokerage boats & never once spoke to an owner. We finally bought SL from a private party (off this forum).

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2007 : 19:43:41

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by delliottg
 The various brokers we talked to when looking for our boat invariably kept the seller's contact information private even when I asked to speak to them...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">For many sellers, that's why they're paying for a broker. And let's be real--it's the seller who pays. I paid (for a $15K runabout) because the broker had customer traffic, and he could handle it on weekends when I was almost never in town. I'm pretty sure, but will never be able to prove, I netted more and sold faster than I would have privately.

Compare to selling cars... Most of us have a passion for our boats, and would happily sell them privately. Do you have a passion for your car? Would you rather trade it in and have a dealer handle it anonymously? I would.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 09/28/2007 19:45:42

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2007 : 10:49:56

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Dave Bristle: Do you have a passion for your car? Would you rather trade it in and have a dealer handle it anonymously? I would.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

A year ago I would have agreed with you, until I tried to trade in my Toyota 4x4 on the F-250 we needed to tow SL. I knew from research that my truck was worth in the neighborhood of $4500-$5000. The dealer offered me $300 (yes, two zeroes) and wouldn't budge. Admittedly this truck had nearly 180k miles on it (12 years old, I'd driven it since new) but to be offered about 1/15 or so of what it was worth was not what I wanted to hear. I opted to keep the truck & sell it myself. I put it on Craigslist & sold it the next day for $4200.

Edited by - on

ChrisandCheri
1st Mate

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USA
30 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2007 : 19:22:32

Why do you want to talk to the owner? Are you getting a survey on the boat?
How does it sail? What kind of shape is it in?
Sorry for so many ??
Oh, what does your gut tell you about the boat?

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4300 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2007 : 20:11:58

Basically to speed up the negotiations.

Yes I'm getting a survey. The boat is in decent shape.

Edited by - GaryB on 09/30/2007 20:12:46

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/01/2007 : 12:30:23

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by GaryB
 Basically to speed up the negotiations.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">My prior point, exactly. The broker is shielding the seller from arm-twisting and head-games. (...not that you'd do that...

)

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 10/01/2007 12:31:10

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2007 : 05:50:58

I agree with Dave once again that the broker is shielding the owner from the buyer, but for a slightly different reason.... disclosure.

Even if there is a disclosure statement in the contract, the weight of misrepresenting comes down much harder if the owner is asked a specific and doesn't disclose.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4300 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2007 : 07:51:55

I appreciate everyone's comments.

I can tell you that I've learned that I'm a novice at negotiating (didn't even think of a disclosure statement)and I haven't been asking enough questions.

What else should I be asking and/or expecting during negotiations?

I really appreciate everyones input on this issue! This forum has already saved me countless dollars!

Gary

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2007 : 10:39:36

A key item is a contingency on a survey. Then find a surveyer--not based on the broker's recommendation--attend the survey with a clipboard and ask lotsa questions.

If something turns up in the survey (core rot, hull damage, etc.), you have the right to factor it into a final price (or walk away). If nothing big comes up, you'll still have a prioritized list of things to attend to or watch out for (like leaky stanchion bases), you'll know more about the boat than before, and your insurer might require a survey anyway. To me, for peace of mind, it's the best $350-or-so you will spend on the boat. But YMMV.

Sorry if you knew that already--I couldn't remember whether you'd mentioned it. It's my semi-annual pitch.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 10/02/2007 10:43:04

KiteKraemer
Navigator

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191 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2007 : 14:59:55

Gary, Did you find a 28 or 30?

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4300 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2007 : 19:27:50

Dave- There is a contigency plan in the Purchase Agreements that I've seen. Up until money changes hands I can back out.

I've think I've already located a very good surveyor who I hear is very thorough and does not play games. I've heard from a couple of different sources that he's good. I located him on my own with no input from any brokers.

KiteKraemer - I've been looking for a C25. I've found a couple now but nothing is final.

Thanks again for everyone's input!

Gary

Edited by - GaryB on 10/02/2007 19:31:12

KiteKraemer
Navigator

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191 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2007 : 16:30:04

I thought you were the Gary B in Portland, OR that just sold their 25 !

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ChrisandCheri
1st Mate

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USA
30 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2007 : 19:17:01

Take it out for a sea trial. Before you do, make a list of things you want to look at. Thoroughly check any and all electronics to make sure they work, as these(and the engine) are generally not included in the survey and are also sold "as-is" by the broker. I just bought my first ever boat in July and I know exactly what you are going through. Good luck, check the electronics!!

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4300 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2007 : 19:34:15

No problem on taking the boat out for sea trials. That's part of the contract along with a survey.

Trust me I can pick anything apart so checking everything will be no problem.

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