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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Safety Line Idea - drawing added

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ilnadi
Captain

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452 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/20/2007 : 23:54:55

I am looking at adding jacklines to Enka. After reading some of the on-line advice about lengths, access, etc. this is what I am thinking:
1. install two padeyes or eye bolts (red stars):
...one on the cockpit floor (somewhere out of the way)
...one on the foredeck (just in front of the hatch)
2. run two lines, one on each side of the mast (blue lines)

Here are the advantages (answering some questions posted below in the meantime) that I see:<ul><li>it should still allow access stern to bow (using a 6-ft tether; if using a shorter tether you need to move the hardware closer to the ends)</li><li>stay clipped while in the cockpit and avoid having to clip/unclip. In fact you can clip/unclip standing inside the cabin</li><li>move the lines inboard and have higher chance of staying onboard. Granted, this is really a weak argument unless the jacklines are really tight and you use a 3-ft tether (which would not let you stand up, not a good thing)</li></ul>

Nadi ex-C25
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/enka
http://building-spindrift11s.blogspot.com/

Edited by - ilnadi on 09/24/2007 21:42:34

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
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Response Posted - 09/21/2007 : 07:50:29

I have no experience with jack lines but have wondered about how I should attach one and your idea sounds good to me!

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 09/21/2007 : 09:38:57

We opted not to use jacklines as our needs could be met in a simpler way. I added two heavy duty folding padeyes, one on each coaming. With a 6' tether that allows crew to reach anywhere in the cockpit and to get into the cabin before unclipping. Then I clip a tether to the mast plate and bring it forward. If crew needs to go forward they clip onto that tether which gets them anywhere on the front of the boat.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 09/21/2007 09:39:18

ClamBeach
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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2007 : 19:02:01

...one on the cockpit floor (somewhere out of the way)

Most I've seen (including my own) are through-bolted on the front vertical wall of the cockpit, under the door. Use fender washers (or more) for backing).

Edited by - on

bbriner
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349 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2007 : 11:00:12

When I've been offshore (on other, much bigger boats - not C25s) we ran the jacklines from the bow cleats to the stern cleats. I'm wondering why this is not ok. Yes, I saw the reasons mentioned above, but this way they allowed us to move freely forward when needed (no clipping/unclipping) if we needed to move forward in a hurry - you've seen vids of dogs on leashes and they get yanked back when they run too far? Not a good thing to happen to you on a boat when everything is going to H&*%!! On our boats, even with an attachment in the cockpit, with the length of the tether you're probably going over the edge anyway if you fall/slip.

Edited by - on

aeckhart
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Response Posted - 09/25/2007 : 07:37:23

I like your idea.....mine is similar. The position of the forward eyebolt may become a nasty head-knocker in the forward cabin though. I have mine farther foward on the fordeck, about midway between the base of the cabin trunk and the anchor locker.

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dlucier
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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2007 : 09:58:07

Instead of installing a possible trip hazard in the middle of the foredeck, I'd be inclined to put a shackle on an unused hole on the stem fitting then use a small length of webbing in which to attach your main jacklines to in the middle of the foredeck.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 09/25/2007 : 10:09:08

I think your lines would interfere with the forehatch and the entry to the cabin. I'll stick with the approach of having a tether or other line attached to the mast plate. Clip your tether onto that to go forward. Very simple and effective. I'm not convinced that jack lines make sense on a 25' boat. They seem to add more complication, tripping hazard, and obstacles to the boat that outweighs their safety value. My opinion.

Edited by - on

dlucier
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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
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Response Posted - 09/25/2007 : 10:15:06

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nautiduck
 I'm not convinced that jack lines make sense on a 25' boat.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I still need convincing too.

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aeckhart
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Response Posted - 09/25/2007 : 11:14:58

Jacklines, tethers, life jackets, life slings, radios, chart plotters,...........insurance policies. You may never need them but they are nice to have when you do. The bottom line for me is, I have it on board, in some variation, in case I run into a situation in which I or my crew need to be safer than without it in some form.

Regarding blocking the forward hatch, if you are in a situation in which you need to deploy jacklines, you probalby shouldn't be opening that hatch anyway.....at least that's true on the Great Lakes in a 25' boat anyway.

Edited by - aeckhart on 09/25/2007 11:17:26

dlucier
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Response Posted - 09/25/2007 : 11:23:49

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by aeckhart
 Regarding blocking the forward hatch, if you are in a situation in which you need to deploy jacklines, you probalby shouldn't be opening that hatch anyway...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Funny you mention this because I almost wrote something similar in my earlier response but it was something like, "If you are in a situation that requires jacklines, don't leave the cockpit".

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 09/25/2007 : 17:54:53

I am all for safety and I have all of those things you list. We wear harnesses and tethers in open water. My point is that you can create tether points on a 25" sailboat without using jacklines and those tether points are effective and don't get underfoot. If you have to undo the jacklines in order to open the hatch or ease entry to the cabin when you get in port then that is a nuisance in my book.

If you look at the diagram you can see that a tether hooked to the mast step and led to the cabin will also reach the bow.

Like Don, I basically forbid crew from leaving the cockpit when we are underway and especially if the going is rough.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 09/25/2007 17:57:55

Douglas
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Response Posted - 09/25/2007 : 19:26:54

Use flat webbing line not cordage. A round line will roll under foot. A flat line will not.

Edited by - on

tmhansen
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397 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2007 : 01:25:33

I run our jack lines (webbing) each time we rig our trailer sailed boat. I have made a promise that I will stay clipped in while solo and we also require the kids to be tethered when they go forward - any weather. Now that they are older they are treated more like adults. Since we trailer sail I don't have the reefing lines led to the cockpit and we have to go to the mast to reef. Using the lines it is easy to move forward. I tie them from the bow pulpit to the stern pulpit so my cleats are unencumbered and I have clear access to my anchor locker. I don't expect them to keep me on the boat - just close to it. I do want to add a point in the cockpit to tie into.

Edited by - on

Renzo
Admiral

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621 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2007 : 14:01:51

A few years back while I was single handing the wind began to pipe up. So, I Tied a big loop of line around the base of the mast, like a big circle with a 2 or 3 foot diameter. I was able to reach it from the companionway step and attach my harness lanyard and then walk foward almost to the bow pulpit which was far enough to drop the Jib and Main sails. Seemed like a simple way to provide a jackline without having it in underfoot or modifying the boat.

Edited by - on

aeckhart
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1709 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2007 : 07:53:03

Now that is a new twist to the jackline problem on a small boat. Sounds very practical.

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 09/27/2007 : 18:24:00

I think Renzo and Nautiduck made very simple, practical suggestions.

Everyone doesn't need jacklines, but they keep you from getting separated from the boat if you're singlehanding in a big body of water, or if you're sailing in a serious storm with crew. The first time I singlehanded my boat on the Chesapeake, I looked all around and didn't see another boat for miles, and realized that, if I fell off, the boat would sail on without me, and there was nobody near to help me. Also, if you fall off in storm or other adverse conditions, your crew might not have sufficient control of the boat to stop it or bring it back to pick you up.

I wear a pfd whenever I go forward while singlehanding in calm conditions, but clip on whenever the wind begins to freshen up.

My jacklines run from bow cleat to stern cleat on both sides. If I have to go forward, I clip to the windward jackline, because, if I fall, it's far more likely that I'll fall to the leeward side of the boat, and the tether will prevent me from falling over the leeward side.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
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Response Posted - 09/28/2007 : 06:44:10

Don't overlook using reverse tethers. What I mean is a tether that remains at the hard point rather than staying with the harness and is just long enough to do the chore at that point.

I have one at chest height starboard on the mast where all mainsail handling is done. When getting to this position to reef, the tether is simply made to the harness D ring along side the normal six foot tether that remains affixed to jack lines.

It allows doing reefing chores without possibility of going overboard.

Edited by - Arlyn Stewart on 09/28/2007 06:48:12

DaveR
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Response Posted - 09/28/2007 : 07:36:38

After reading all the responses I think I'll go with the folding padeyes by the coamings and the looped line around the mast. I would loop from the halyard eye to keep the loop from sliding upward. Inexpensive, minimally invasive, nothing underfoot.

Edited by - on

johnsonp
Admiral

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USA
606 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2007 : 23:01:23

ilnadi

Well your thinking about safety, which is good, when in a needy situation for some thing to hold you and make you feel safe while performing some on deck duty during who knows what conditions.

As time goes by with use of your equipment you have chosen, so will come the modifications based on your experience's.

I use a 3/8inch 6 foot line, with a prusik knot(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prusik_knot ) to lengthen or shorten the 6 foot line, and carabiner which clips on the jackline strap and a carabiner which is attached to my PFD. For a jackline I use a one inch webbing running bow to stern with a 3/8" line tied to one end of webbing and use a truckers knot to keep it taught when needed..
I used this setup just a few weeks ago....see Admiralty Forum.
I first used this on my Windmill then on my Capri 22 WK and my C250 wk and have made modifications along the way.
When your ready maybe a few pictures.

paulj

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