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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Oops, water under the sole, now what?

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kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/27/2007 : 22:35:29

Even though this a C250 question, I am putting it in the general forum to get the most response to what is really a generic boat maintenance question.

I have a C250WK, and it has a teak and holly sole. For those of you not familiar, this is marine (I hope) plywood with a thin veneer of teak and holly on the top surface. Under this plywood is the hull. The plywood is held to the hull with screws, but it is mostly one large piece that will be ungainly to get out of the boat.

So, the drain on my cooler came open somehow, and an entire cooler full of ice melted and drained into the bilge and under the plywood sole in my boat. I pumped the bilge, and removed as much water as I could, but there is still water that "squishes" out around the edges of the sole when I step on it. Even when we carefully step all around and blot the excess, more comes out each time we press down. There is also about 1/2 inch of soaked wood at the bottom of the head wall.

So I solved it like I solve all my problems, I went sailing. ;-) I hoped that heeling back and forth would dislodge the water and it would run down into the bilge.

No such luck. Water still squishes out when I step on the sole.

So now I have two possible courses of action, both of which worry me.

1.) Pull the sole up, take it home, put it on the garage floor with weights on it and let it dry. I fear if I do this, the sole will swell and warp, and I will never get it back into the boat.

2.) Leave it alone, and try to get it ventilated as frequently as possible so it will dry in place. Ya right, it will start raining here again in two or three weeks, and I don't have a solar ventilator or any other dehumidifier in the cabin. I am afraid if I leave it down, I will get mold and rot in sole, and have to replace it, which would be a REALLY challenging task for the wood-idiot that I am. I am in Oregon, which is a pretty humid place year round.

Advice? Choice 1, choice 2, or something else?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Kevin Mackenzie
Former Association Secretary and Commodore
"Dogs Allowed"
'06 C250WK #881
and
"Jasmine"
'01 Maine Cat 30 #34

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2007 : 22:50:00

Kevin, wet Ply is never a good situation.

Don't see much alternative to pulling it out and drying it as you mentioned.

You could try 'wicking' it, that's just putting some absorbant material as close to the wet edge as possible. Is there any gap around the edges?

Let's know how it turns out.

Paul

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2007 : 06:20:30

The one good thing about plywood is that, with the grain on each ply crossing the others, it has less tendancy to warp and swell. If it's gonna swell, it'll do it and bulge up whether you remove it or not. Your main issue is the moisture around the edges, which will delaminate it eventually. I'd start by at least removing the screws, lifting the plywood, mopping up the residual water, and leaving the plywood up for a few days--even if just blocked up in the boat (with towels or whatever). Put a tarp over your forward hatch and lift it to allow some circulation, and maybe do something similar at the companionway. Even humid air will dry things out eventually. Then go over the bottom and edges of the plywood with a dilute bleach solution (keeping as much air moving through as possible) to knock out the mildew before it takes over.

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DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2007 : 07:37:12

Kevin,
It's been my experience that plywood warps when I don't evenly weigh it down and let it dry thoroughly. 1/4" and 1/2" warping more than 5/8" or 3/4" but I'd do the garage thing.

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2007 : 08:36:07

Take it home and screw it down to something to let it dry.
The wall of your garage? A new 3/4" sheet of ply from the store?

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2007 : 09:32:22

Kevin,
If the plywood is marine ply, it won't delaminate or swell, and is unlikely to warp if you take it out to dry. If however it's not marine ply it's quite likely to do all three to some extent in which case you have more interesting problem to solve. I'd call Catalina & ask about what they used. If it's marine ply it'll have either a [url="http://www.worldpanel.com/bs1088.htm"]BS 1088[/url] or possibly a [url="http://www.bruynzeelmultipanel.com/en/"]Bruynzeel[/url] rating. Of the two BS 1088 is far more common, and has a Lloyd's of London rating. I'm guessing that the ply in your boat is neither of these, but it could be, it's worth asking.

If on the other hand it's not, I'd be inclined to leave the sole in place, then get yourself a dehumidifier, possibly two, & run them 24/7. I'd also get several of the dehumidifying crystal buckets, half a dozen probably wouldn't be too many. [url="http://www.drizair.com/"]Dri-Z-Air[/url] is the first one that comes to mind. They'll suck up an enormous amount of water, and they're not that expensive.

IMHO, your biggest concern if the sole stays in the boat is mold. The quicker you can dry up the water, the better. If you have the dehumidifiers & crystals going, it should dry up fairly quickly. As Dave recommended, you might consider a chlorine solution (maybe 50:1? do your homework) to pour along the sides of the sole, especially if the water from the cooler wasn't just ice water, but had some food particles mixed in. The chlorine solution will severely inhibit any growth while it dries. I'd also run a fan 24/7 to keep the air moving in the boat. If you've got one of those "air mover" fans, so much the better. I found a good one at HD for about $45 a couple of years ago. Direct the flow of air as close to the surface of the ply as possible.

Edited by - delliottg on 08/28/2007 09:36:06

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2007 : 09:33:00

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Take it home and screw it down to something to let it dry.
The wall of your garage? A new 3/4" sheet of ply from the store?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I certainly don't disagree--I was only suggesting that if for some reason he couldn't, or couldn't quickly, he should start the drying ASAP.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 08/28/2007 09:36:05

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2007 : 13:16:42

Kevin,

I have the same flooring and when my WB leaked onto the floor I experienced the same "squishing" as you did especially in front of the galley. Went sailing and heeled and picked up as much as I could. I let it dry by itself and got minor warping in front of the cooler (but I think it was already like that to begin with). Throughout the season for various reasons I got water inside and let it dry by itself every time. If I would start dismantling the floor every time I had a little water it would be a real pain. Now that you mention it I am also concerned about mold, but to tell you the truth I smell nothing (and I got a pretty sensitive nose).

Too bad Catalina didn't put a bead of marine silicone around the whole floor. Someday I will put in real teak in there (on marine plywood) and build it in 2-3 easily removable sections.

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 08/28/2007 13:18:20

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2007 : 13:39:00

I've been thinking abut using sections of laminated flooring e.g.pergot. I'll use the carpet that I've removed as a pattern. I was thinking of gluing the laminated flooring sections together in 2 or 3 pieces but let them float as they're designed to do. Maybe secured to the sole with a little high strength velcro. I haven't found any teak and holly laminate though. There are a few attractive options.

I don't think I'd silicone it in for just the concerns that have been mentioned here. If water were to get under it, it'd be a pain to get out.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2007 : 13:57:19

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> Steve: Now that you mention it I am also concerned about mold, but to tell you the truth I smell nothing (and I got a pretty sensitive nose). <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I too have a pretty sensitive nose, but I've found out that mold can be more insidious than you think. I used to work in the public works basement of a small municipality some years back. I felt sick for a long time there, not exactly sick, but unwell. After a while I moved on but kept in touch with some of my friends. About six months after I left one of my friends told me they had decided to put in new carpeting. When they pulled up the old carpeting, they found a giant area of mold, part of which completely encompassed where I'd sat. I'd noticed after I started working somewhere else, I simply felt "better". I'd ascribed it to a new & exciting situation (working at Microsoft), but looking back, I think that while working at MSFT was new & exciting, being away from the mold environment was a major contributor to my feeling of well being.

BTW, I never once remembered smelling anything "off" while sitting there.

My $0.02

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2007 : 14:48:38

Sorry to hear about the problem. The teak and holly floors look great and I used to envy people with them.

I removed the carpet from Nauti Duck all together. I like the regular old fiberglass sole for ease of maintenance and low odor and mold possibilities.

Edited by - on

kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2007 : 15:22:26

Thanks everybody. I considered removing it permanently as well, but I am not sure what it looks like underneath, having never had it off. I have a call into Kent at Catalina to find out his advice, and to see what the material is. I'll post here when I hear.

Right now, I am inclined to remove it, and take the risk that I could not get it back in. Right now, except for this problem, I have a dry, crud free boat, and I don't want to take the mold risk. Poorly maintained boats smell HORRIBLE around here...

Again, thanks for all your thoughts.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2007 : 15:49:54

Water under the floor reminds me of the time last spring when I helped a friend deliver his sailboat from Lake St Clair to my marina in Lake Erie.

We were underway only for an hour when I went below to get my camera only to discover an inch of water covering the floor (and a ton under the floor). I said to my friend, "Um, Mike...I think we've got a problem!". While he steered and manned the manual bilge pump, I started looking under the floorboards for the source of the leak, but I couldn't see where it was coming in at. After pumping for 5 or 10 minutes, we got the water out only for it to return in another 10 or 15 minutes.

After more searching, we found the plastic bilge pump hose had ruptured near where it attached to a fitting on the transom. The transom fitting was very near the water line and when we were motoring, the stern sank a bit putting the fitting underwater which allowed water to flow into the boat through the ruptured hose...We still laugh about our near sinking!

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ABYON
Deckhand

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Canada
11 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2007 : 22:03:39

I have a 2003 water ballasted 250 and the factory-installed teak and holly sole. I've had water under the sole (not a lot, just enough to create the squishy condition you describe) many, many times. The water comes in through the pipe that guides the swing keel raising system.

I've noted no warping or deterioration as a result. I removed the sole a couple of times. It's not easy and not worth the hassle. The sole under the plywood is textured (to be antiskid I assume) fibreglass. It's the same floor you have in the head. It's not unattractive. Although the teak and holly sole is very attractive I'm not sure I would go for it again. BTW I never found any mold under the sole.

I've had the boat 5 sailing seasons now and the sole looks as good as new. I figure if ever it does deteriorate I'll simply remove it and leave the floor bare. It'll just make maintenance easier. Believe me, it may be the first time you have water under the sole but it won't be the last.

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britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2007 : 06:51:13

Gilles, you can diminish the water entry through the keel raising tackle tube by stuffing a sponge down it. We put in one of those Green circular scrubbing pads and no water makes it out during launch. I'm considering using a piece of sponge noodle as I could trim it to go down the hole but leave a piece sticking out the top so it's easy to remove.

Not my idea, but one of the first tricks I found when I joined this forum in 05 before buying the boat.

Paul

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ABYON
Deckhand

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Canada
11 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2007 : 18:41:45

Thanks Paul. Yes, I've stuffed a sponge in there and it does help somewhat. As I rarely trailer the boat, launching is not the problem. Under certain conditions, such as beating into a good chop, water has a tendency to come up the tube. When the sponge gets saturated it starts dripping in. I'll watch for the results of your noodle experiment with interest.

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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2007 : 19:43:12

John Russell,

Don't use laminated flooring. As soon as it gets wet it starts swelling and will disintegrate shortly thereafter.

GaryB

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2007 : 20:36:44

Check this...

http://plasteak.com/osc/index.php?cPath=1_30_72_75

...as impervious to water as your hull.

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kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Response Posted - 09/17/2007 : 16:35:22

I talked to Kent at Catalina. He recommended pulling the floor up and drying it thoroughly with weights on it. He said the C250 teak and holly sole is marine plywood, he hopes, but the factory changes materials all the time... He said it might be hard to get back in, but it would be better to sand it down and revarnish it to get it back in that let it mold and rot underneath...

FYI for everyone, factory viewpoint, your mileage may vary, or you may have a different vehicle entirely...

Also, he mentioned that he gets 60 to 70 voice mails a day, and that does not count the emails. He has an assistant that pulls the messages off so that his voice mail box does not overfill, but he says that sometimes long voice mails get mistranscribed, but he does try to get back to everyone promptly.

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