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Another lesson (re)learned

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glivs
Admiral

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USA
836 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/17/2007 : 10:09:55

Wednesday evening the Admiral and I went for a quick sail after work. A cold front had passed through earlier in the day, skies were clearing, winds were out of the NW at 10-15 Kts….a spectacular evening. The Soling fleet was racing along the eastern shore but otherwise I counted only two other boats on the inner bay (roughly 2 x 2 nm). We pointed upwind but just shy of the exit to the outer bay we heaved to and kicked back to enjoy the sunset as we slowly drifted back into the inner bay; the nearest boat was at least a mile a way but heading towards us. At about 0.5 miles this guy was beginning to get my attention (the other boat was about 35’ with full sails and on a starboard tack). I suspected he was trying to stay on his current tack as long as possible so that his next tack would take him into the outer bay and that he was pointing as high as possible, but I could not believe he did not see us or could not fall off just enough to pass by our stern. Not wanting to block their avenue to fall off the wind, I hesitated to turn downwind but at several hundred meters distance it was clear that we were on a collision course if one of us did not take action. A quick call on the VHF yielded no response but it was now evident that he was closing far too fast for us to maneuver. I started blowing the horn. On the second blast the helmsman peaked from behind the dodger and they fell off, passing our stern by less than a boat length. It appeared as if the three men (two facing astern) had not seen us. About 200 m distance past us, they tacked and headed towards the outer bay.

In hindsight, I realize once again how important it is to prepare for the unanticipated. I could/should have reset the jib and sailed inside the angle within which the other boat could not have pointed. The Admiral and two (non-sailing) guests, however, were fixing a salad on the cockpit seat, the cockpit was crowded and I hesitated. My error. Comments?

Gerry Livingston, Malletts Bay, VT
"Great Escape" 1989 C-25 SR/WK #5972

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3442 Posts

Response Posted - 08/17/2007 : 11:25:07

I think you did fine. Granted he was on a starboard tack. He also had the speed and easy maneuverabilty had he seen you earlier and he should have seen you much earlier. The thing is that no matter who has right of way, other measures must be taken when one does not give way. You took two measures - VHF radio and then the horn.

Even if on starboard tack with right of way, when one sees a boat in the distance it is easy for both to avoid each other. It seems the main issue is not that he had right of way but that he was not being observant of other boats at sea - he did not see you. if he ignored the horn, then obviously you would have had to take action and action by then may have been to late. I still think you took the proper actions.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/17/2007 : 12:44:55

One more time: He did not have "right of way." He would have been the "stand-on vessel" and you might have been the "give-way vessel" under rules designed to prevent the "shall we dance--crunch" routine--not to allow a starboard tack vessel to not pay attention. You were not under way, so you could not reasonably give way. You saw him, and he was supposed to see you and that you were hove to and not under way. You did almost exactly what you're supposed to--he didn't (until the last moment).

BTW, the correct signal is five quick blasts.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 08/17/2007 14:11:15

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 08/17/2007 : 13:57:16

Well done.
You outlined what an emergency or urgent action is - its usually encountered when you least want it or are least expecting it.

A good horn, even though it sounds extravagant at $20 or $30 is well worth it when you compare it to the cost of a boat collision.

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 08/17/2007 : 20:36:10

You handled that absolutely correctly as I understand the procedures...and would have done the same. How is it so many boaters aren't paying attention - and fortunately your actions avoided a serious situation - as responsible boaters, we must be forever vigilant.

Edited by - jerlim on 08/17/2007 20:37:12

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 08/18/2007 : 16:30:00

Don't see an issue here. You are bobbing, he's not paying attention. Horn solves problem.....pass the salsa please.

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2007 : 00:46:07

A few years ago, between two sailing races (and we were in the races) we were hit by another boat (in the same races). We were hove to on what you'd call a port tack (jib on port side back-winded, main out to starboard) when this racer, with only his main up (between races) came up on our starboard side from well astern, sailing main only on PORT tack. Later we learned the skipper was below and his green crewman at the wheel couldn't control the boat in the gusting winds and he ended up hitting us, his port to our starboard. We were having sandwiches in our cockpit.

What I learned:

1. It's very easy, especially when you're hove to, to assume that other boats know what you are doing and that you are under slightly reduced maneuverability - THEY DON'T!!! The skipper, who'd been sailing for many years, DIDN'T KNOW WHAT "HEAVE TO" MEANT!!!

2. I should have gotten out of his way when I first realized he was getting close, even though he was sailing on port tack, and he was to leeward of us. I figured he'd move out of our way. I got somewhat lazy, when I figured we were hove to and not really going anywhere. It's easy to do when you're hove to.

Lessons learned:

When you're hove to, figure that MOST other boats have NO CLUE as to what you're doing.

If someone is coming upwind on starboard tack, I don't care what you are doing, it's your responsibility to GET OUT OF THEIR WAY. Period.

Edited by - Stu Jackson C34 on 08/19/2007 00:47:28

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2007 : 01:19:43

This brings up an interesting point and I guess the lesson learned in my case is that you never assume that the other boaters know what they are doing and have an exit plan (or plan B).

This very weekend proved me right (again unfortunately). Our lake (Ghost Lake, AB) is not very big and can get quite crowded sometimes. To put matters worse our economy is booming which produces a great amount of new speed boat owners with no clue as how to operate safely. This Saturday, I was under sail (main only) cruising at 3.5 knots and been heading in the same direction for at least 30 minutes. To port is the marina (about 500 feet) and I am heading to my usual safe spot to lower my sails. Suddenly a speed boat pulls to starboard heading towards the marina, 90 degrees to my bow. He slows down and puts himself in a perfect collision course. We are about 100 feet apart, and the closer we come together I cannot believe he is not seeing me, nor is anyone else on his boat of about 5 passengers. I am totally invisible! Meanwhile everyone on my boat is on the lookout and wondering what this guy is doing. All this time we are getting closer and at about 1.5 boat lengths I enable Plan B and quickly get out of his way and pass to his stern (all this time under sail of course). I stand up and politely grab his attention and point to my sails and he looks at me with absolutely no idea as to what I'm talking about. Not only did he have the perfect speed boater stereotype outfit on he also had the personality that goes with it telling me "well, just consider you have more experience now" of course pointing out to his guests that he is right and I was wrong.

I'm the type that gets along well with other people, but this type of speedboat big man macho attitude is what I see all the time and seldom otherwise. I'm starting to develop a "them and us" attitude towards speed boaters. In Canada it is still not required to have a license to operate a boat (it will in a few years) how is it in the States?

Edited by - on

Gambit
Navigator

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USA
160 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2007 : 06:29:52

FWIW, if you heave to on starboard you will have rights on port tack boats. Even then, you still need a lookout and would have to take the actions you did to avoid a collision.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2007 : 09:25:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Blackburn
 ...In Canada it is still not required to have a license to operate a boat (it will in a few years) how is it in the States?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
It varies state-by-state. CT has a required test and issues a Safe Boating Certificate that you must carry (and that can be suspended or revoked). We even have a separate test and certificate for PWC operators, and I feel like both have improved things markedly over the past few years. But we still have NJ and NY boats running around, and our most recent fatality was caused by a CT drunkard--his certificate is gone--actually, he should be in prison.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2007 : 09:53:48

This being a hot-button for me, I'm compelled to point out one other distinction... We should never confuse the racing rules, which confer "rights" on the racecourse, with the rules of the road, which only confer responsibilities. On the racecourse, starboard has "rights" over port. Off the racecourse, that's an improper interpretation. The general rule of the road is that, for two sailboats or two powerboats, the boat showing its port side (red running light) in a questionable situation is required to maintain course while the boat showing its starboard side (green) alters course to avoid trouble. That translates, when both boats are beating, to the starboard-port convention sailors are used to, and of course sail is usually stand-on when the other vessel is power (unless sail is overtaking power or power has limited ability to maneuver, for example). But it does not mean "right of way"--it means a responsibility to hold course versus a responsibility to alter course. If the "stand-on vessel" wants to turn in a situation where that would affect the give-way vessel, stand-on must hold course until it won't affect the other--he can't just meander wherever he wants because of some "right of way". Each vessel has responsibilities under the rules, which include what to do if the other doesn't fulfill his responsibilities (starting with the radio and the horn). For example, if stand-on in a port-starboard situation decides he must act to avoid collision, he must not turn to port (as if to pass behind give-way). Think about why...

$+!nkp*++er done on soapbox and standing by on 1-3 and 1-6.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 08/20/2007 10:29:22

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2007 : 14:50:27

There're times when I wish I had a cannon mounted on the bow...

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2007 : 15:38:39

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> There're times when I wish I had a cannon mounted on the bow... <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Don't we all. As far as rules of the road go, I've learned to look at it from my boat's perspective. If the other guy is showing a red light, you're the burdened party, if they're showing a green light, they're the burdened party. Their lights tell you what you should do. Of course common sense has to be applied. I've long since learned to expect that power boaters have no sense, no idea of the rules of the road, and no clue what to do in a close encounter. I try not to let them get close enough for that to matter, but that's not always so easy to do as in Steve's example where you have a small lake with lots of power boats.

I've come uncomfortably close to being hit twice in almost the exact same place where the lake I used to sail on necked down to only about 100 yds wide. First time was two teenage girls yakking to each other on their Bombardiers while doing 45 mph right at me. They didn't even hear the first horn and neither had seen me. Finally the one furthest from shore saw me, screamed and leaned into a tight left turn to avoid. The other one had nowhere to go but between me & the shoreline, maybe 15 yards of space. If she had tried the same leaning turn she'd have taken out my boat (I already had my dog in my arms & was getting ready to jump). Fortunately she made the right choice & kept going straight.

Second time was a big powerboat throttling up about 20 yards from the launch w/o looking in front of him to where I was (you'd think 25' of mast, sails, etc. would be a clue). His bow came out of the water, he had absolutely no forward visibility, and once again couldn't hear my horn over his twin giant engines. I had my dog in my arms again, and was getting ready to jump when his wife/girlfriend/whatever saw me and started screaming at him. He throttled down and zoomed by me maybe 5 yards off of my stern. In neither case could I have possibly gotten out of the way, the closing speed was more than my catamaran could deal with. I learned not to sail over there, even though it meant several more tacks to get through the narrow part of the lake.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2007 : 16:08:28

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by delliottg
 Second time was a big powerboat throttling up about 20 yards from the launch w/o looking in front of him to where I was (you'd think 25' of mast, sails, etc. would be a clue). His bow came out of the water, he had absolutely no forward visibility,...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
A similar thing happened to us on our Daysailer, sails up and under way... The powerboat, only about 20 yards away, had been sitting there, and then gunned it. I had no time to even grab the horn. He swerved, missed us by 8-10' and doused us with the spray from his hull... It was the police boat for the Town of Darien, CT! (He never looked back.)

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 08/20/2007 16:15:07

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2007 : 15:23:59

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The general rule of the road is that, for two sailboats or two powerboats, the boat showing its port side (red running light) in a questionable situation is required to maintain course while the boat showing its starboard side (green) alters course to avoid trouble.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

As per COLREGS, RR1 Part A-General, rule #12:

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">(a) when two sailing vessels are approaching one another, so as to involve risk of collision, one of them shall keep out of the way of the other as follows:

(i)when each of them has the wind on a different side, the vessel which has the wind on the port side shall keep out of the way of the other;

(ii) When both have the wind on the same side, the vessel which is to windward shall keep out of the way of the vessel which is to leeward;

(iii) if the vessel with the wind on the port side sees a vessel to windward and cannot determine with certainty whether the other vessel has the wind on the port or the starboard side, she shall keep out of the way of the other.

(b) For the purposes of this Rule the windward side shall be deemed to be the side opposite that on which the mainsail is carried or, in the case of a square rigged vessel, the side opposite to that on which the largest fore-and-aft sail is carried.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Edited by - Oscar on 08/21/2007 15:25:28

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2007 : 16:14:29

Yes, Oscar, I oversimplified the case to two boats beating on opposite tacks (which happens to work out to the same thing as responding to red/green)... Yes, there are additional variations--same tack, overtaking, etc. My point is that the responsibility of one boat--sail or power--to give way does not absolve the other boat of its responsibilities. If under the rules you are the stand-on vessel, you must (1) keep a watch for all other vessels, (2) recognize a potential for collision, (3) hold a clear, obvious course and speed until you determine that the give-way boat is not acting properly to avoid collision, and then (4) if necessary, take action. I know sailors who believe once they're on starboard they can meander about and everyone must get out of their way. That might have some validity among racers on the racecourse, but not anywhere else. I wish the phrase "right of way" could be eliminated from all related discussions except where they involve limited ability to maneuver--e.g., a ship in a channel.

Edited by - on

Gambit
Navigator

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USA
160 Posts

Response Posted - 08/22/2007 : 05:57:25

I knew I might draw some flack for loose language, rights vs. stand-on. I know the difference and often go over it with family and crew. However, my point was to heave to on a starboard tack when you have a choice.

Then follow all rules of the road, keep a lookout, your mileage may vary, coffee may be hot.

Edited by - on

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