Association Forum - Saildrive propellers

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

Saildrive propellers

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

tom.laing
Deckhand

Member Avatar

USA
9 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/13/2007 : 18:30:50

Hello,

I am a new owner of a 2005 wing keel with a 9hp Yanmar Sail Drive. I have not even had my boat in the water yet but wanted to inquire about saildrive propeller performance. I have been sworn off of the factory supplied two blade fixed prop as not having sufficient thrust and creating excessive drag under sail. Has anyone tried alternatives that promise good thrust under power with little drag under sail?

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 08/13/2007 : 18:45:08

Congratulations on the new boat and welcome to the forum. You'll find a lot of help here.

I was having a conversation with a guy the other day about his saildrive and, frankly, wasn't paying much attention since I barely know what a saildrive is but.... He mentioned a Yahoo based forum for saildrive owners. Ya might take a look there as well as tapping the experts here.

Edited by - John Russell on 08/13/2007 18:48:04

mhartong
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
152 Posts

Response Posted - 08/13/2007 : 19:29:08

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by tom.laing
 Hello,

I am a new owner of a 2005 wing keel with a 9hp Yanmar Sail Drive. I have not even had my boat in the water yet but wanted to inquire about saildrive propeller performance. I have been sworn off of the factory supplied two blade fixed prop as not having sufficient thrust and creating excessive drag under sail. Has anyone tried alternatives that promise good thrust under power with little drag under sail?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Tom,

I also have the Yanmar 9hp Sail Drive. The factory suggested alternative is a 2 Blade Martec Folding Propeller. Retail, depending on the diameter, you are looking in the neighborhood of $750 ( 12" diameter) to $1500 (20" diameter) plus installation.

You might want to consider splashing your boat, sail it for the rest of the season, and see how the factory fixed blade prop works for you while you decide. There are a lot of alternatives besides Martec ( for example MaxProp, Autoprop, Fexofold) in either 2 or 3 blades. None of which are cheap.

Most of the major manufactuers will provide you assistance in sizing their particular offerings. While the stock fix blade isn't anything to write home about, it does work (i.e it gets you from point a to b) And if you are on limited BU's (who isn't?

) with a number of different competing projects you want to get done, it will get you sailing while you decide what's the best configuration at the price point you want to pay and how it fits into the priority of all of the other things that take up BU's.

FWIW-YMMV

Mark

Edited by - on

tom.laing
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
9 Posts

Response Posted - 08/13/2007 : 19:42:01

Thanks John and Mark,

My biggest issue is a six knot current at mid tide abeam of my slip so thrust is a major concern. I will stick with stock fixed prop for now and see how that works.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 08/13/2007 : 20:43:17

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by tom.laing
 My biggest issue is a six knot current at mid tide abeam of my slip so thrust is a major concern. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Although a new prop may be more efficient, it won't get you over the theoretical hull speed of your boat, probably around 6 knots or so, which means you most likely won't make any headway against that six knot current regardless of the prop you use.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/13/2007 : 20:45:17

Tom: A six knot current is a problem unless you get enough thrust to get your bow out of the water, which I don't think you're going to do with 9hp... Your maximum hull speed through the water under power is just over 6 knots, almost no matter how much thrust you muster. (Yes, you can beat that speed surfing...) At that speed, the bow wave pushes back with a force equal to your forward thrust, and you're going no faster. You could get yourself into a real dicey situation in that current, unable to make any headway even straight into the current, much less at an angle. It sounds to me like you'll need to time your arrivals and departures well away from mid-tide.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 08/13/2007 20:48:27

Greg @ Lake Tahoe
Deckhand

Members Avatar

12 Posts

Response Posted - 08/13/2007 : 21:06:55

Hi Tom,
I am also interested in different experiences with sail drive props. I have the folding Martec IV 14 inch diameter 7 pitch blades on my 250WK. For the second time in two years one of the blades has come free and found a home in the bottom of the lake. The first time seemed flukey but now I wonder if there is some design concern. I spoke to the folks at Martec and they seem genuinely surprised at my misfortune. Except for the unfortunate losses, I have been very happy with their form and function. I cruise at 5 knots at about 3000 rpms.

Edited by - on

atgep
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

1009 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2007 : 02:37:16

There is also the kiwi prop. Not sure if they make a saildrive version. Very hightly rated on other forums.

Edited by - on

tom.laing
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
9 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2007 : 04:47:49

yes, the six knot current is quite a sight and we all pay attention to the rule of twelves when timing our departure or arrival. The big power boats simply back into the current and lean on their dolphin while powering in. Not an option for me. The good news is that it brings game fish right to the dock and it is localized to the channel so you simply traverse it and go on your way.

Greg, How is your sailing performance with the Martec? Did Martec stand by your two props or did you have to eat them both? I doubt you can dive into Lake Tahoe to retrieve them! Must be a beautiful place to sail. I grew up out there and have visited often.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2007 : 09:55:55

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by tom.laing
 yes, the six knot current is quite a sight and we all pay attention to the rule of twelves when timing our departure or arrival. The big power boats simply back into the current and lean on their dolphin while powering in. Not an option for me...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I just wanted to be sure you didn't think you'd find a prop that would make headway against six knots--and reverse is worse. I was envisioning you ricocheting off pilings, fingers, and boats...

Edited by - on

tom.laing
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
9 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2007 : 12:40:26

I have inquiries out to Max Prop, Gori and Martec. Gori has responded with a recommendation for a folding blade 13 x 9. I am waiting for their rep to contact me with a price.

Here is Martec's pitch (pun intended): "We would recommend a 14 x 8 MKIV for a Saildrive, which is what we have put on these boats with great success" I have also contacted Catalina but they don't seem to respond to inquiries.

Greg, this appears to exceed the pitch you mentioned for your Lake Tahoe artifact contributor.

Edited by - on

Greg @ Lake Tahoe
Deckhand

Members Avatar

12 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2007 : 14:00:01

Interesting update Tom. My boat is a 2000 model; not sure why the original pitch of 7 was made. I bought her 3 seasons ago. I have been totally happy with the performance of the 9 horse yanmar, sail drive combo with the martec prop. I have a lot of vegetation in the channel where I dock. I suspect that plays a role in the loosening. I submitted an insurance claim for my first problem, saving the blade that was not lost. I plan on putting the two saved disparate blades together to complete this season.I realize that the balance might not be perfect but frugality speaks to me. Tahoe is a wonderful place to sail. Nice winds, unbeatable views with nice bays to visit.

Edited by - on

tom.laing
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
9 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2007 : 15:07:18

Here is the response from Max Prop.

Dear Mr. Laing,

Thank you for your interest in the Max-Prop automatic feathering propeller for your Catalina 250. With the information we maintain on the vessel and the information we have on the running gear we do not have a propeller that will fit. The smallest unit we manufacture for the SD is a 15" in either a two or three blade. It is showing the unit required for your vessel is a 13". If you know it to be a larger propeller please feel free to let me know. Again thank you for your interest in the Max-Prop.

Kevin L. Woody, V.P.

Edited by - on

tom.laing
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
9 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2007 : 17:26:35

Thanks for the tip on Kiwi props. Unfortunately, the smallest Yanmar they are specified for is a 2GM20

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2007 : 18:56:52

Tom,
Where do you keep your boat? I see in your profile your in Rocky Mount.

Edited by - Tom Potter on 08/14/2007 18:57:56

tom.laing
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
9 Posts

Response Posted - 08/16/2007 : 08:03:01

Here is the response from Gori:

The Gori engineers have recommended the 13 x 9 x 2LHS propeller for your saildrive installation.

The list for this propeller is $1175.00. However, at our "summer special" it will be $1059.00

Should you have any additional questions please let me know or give either Geoff or myself a ring at
800-801-8922.

I look fwd to your response and to the opportunity.

Regards,
Steve Armitage
AB Marine, Inc
401-847-7960
sales@AB-Marine.com
Autoprop ~ Gori propeller ~ Shaft Shark ~ Magnum Energy ~ Kiwi Anchor Rider

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

Members Avatar

USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 08/17/2007 : 07:52:36

Here's the response from Paul
Yikes! "$1175" for about another grand, you can get an outboard! Prop included!"

Paul

Edited by - on

mhartong
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
152 Posts

Response Posted - 08/17/2007 : 09:33:03

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by britinusa
 Here's the response from Paul
Yikes! "$1175" for about another grand, you can get an outboard! Prop included!"

Paul

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yup, cheap they are not! And that is just to get the prop, one still has to install it.

I would love to put one on Persephone, but after I researched the prices, I decided that I could live with the factory fixed blade for a while longer. For where I sail (the Chesapeake) it works well enough, and when I'm out sailing I'm never in that big a hurry anyway.

Mark

Edited by - on

CaptRon400
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
90 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2007 : 09:43:25

Steve Armitage at AB Marine is OK. They market the Autoprop (even more expensive if they even make your size) and the Gori. The Autoprop is the only prop around that has a chance of fighting a 6 knot current - it automatically changes pitch based on conditions. But if it's on your beam you don't stand a chance. Been there, done that with many sailboats. Get a twin engine trawler with a bow thruster and you have a reasonable chance of making it in or out at 6 knots, but even that will be dicey. You've got to time your departures and returns. I've wintered at a Marina (sometimes hauled, sometimes in the water) with my C400 (with Autoprop) and I would not even try to get past 3 knots if I could help it, without lines on the upstream direction of the current and helpers on board pulling on these lines.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2007 : 11:14:08

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by CaptRon400
 ...Get a twin engine trawler with a bow thruster and you have a reasonable chance of making it in or out at 6 knots...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I've never seen a bow thruster on any boat that could hold the bow against a 6 knot beam current. That's an insane current! No matter what the prop, a C-250 could only make a couple of tenths of a knot headway directly into it at full throttle. At any angle, you'll go sideways/backwards.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 08/20/2007 11:15:58

CaptRon400
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
90 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2007 : 12:35:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 I've never seen a bow thruster on any boat that could hold the bow against a 6 knot beam current. That's an insane current! No matter what the prop, a C-250 could only make a couple of tenths of a knot headway directly into it at full throttle. At any angle, you'll go sideways/backwards.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The 250 wouldn't have a chance if the current is on the beam or close to it. It may be able to almost stay in one spot with a very efficient prop otherwise, but I don't think you'll find anything like this in this size range.

I've seen 35 to 40 foot trawlers (twin engine, large thruster) back into slips with some crew also pulling on lines against a 5 knot current on the beam. It can be done, but I've also seen many fail (with considerable damage). You've got to be very good and time the manuever perfectly. Better to wait for a couple of hours.

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.