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Bottom Job

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Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/15/2007 : 18:24:31

It's done!

After arriving back from the BEER cruise, I decided to get the bottom done while the boat was on the trailer. The hardest part was sanding the old antifouling paint.

What a mess! I think I sweated off a couple pounds in that paint suit.(I needed that)

After two new coats of West Marine's finest (cheapest)

Also had time to wax the hull this afternoon. What a vacation this has been, 6 nights on board in Penascola and two days doing the bottom job. Planning to put her back in the slip in the morning before my neighbors start complaining.

1997 250 TR WK (sold)
1984 O'Day 28 (sold)
1979 SISU 22
Bath, NC.

Edited by - on

CapnEddy
1st Mate

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USA
25 Posts

Response Posted - 06/15/2007 : 19:23:37

Tom - What grade(s) of sandpaper did you use to remove the ablative? Did Knotty Cat have a barrier coat? I keep Close Quarters on the hard most of the time and never have her in salt water for more than three weeks at a time. Do I even need a bottom paint? If so, suggestions?

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 06/15/2007 : 20:20:00

I followed the directions on the can. Since the bottom was in good condition I did not remove all the old paint. I just sanded the old paint with 80 grit paper and wiped the bottom down with thinner and applied two fresh coats. As for having a barrier coat? I don't know, the last bottom job was done by the previous owner.

If I were to keep the boat on the hard most of the time and only a couple weeks at a time in salt water I would for go the bottom paint. Any longer and I would slap some on.

Others might have different opinions on this.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 06/15/2007 : 21:26:42

If you have never applied an anti-fouling paint then give serious consideration to VC-17. This is what I use. It is more costly ($50/Qt) but does not require sanding when you apply new coats. That is a big advantage plus the stuff works great. My last bottom job took 3 hours for two coats in most places and 3 along the waterline and keel. However, VC-17 cannot be put on top of any other anti-fouling paint. You go with it and you stick with it. Racers use it because it is very thin and slick. If you go with VC-17 e-mail me and I'll give you some application tips. My C250 took 3 quarts.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 06/15/2007 21:50:43

CaptRon400
1st Mate

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USA
90 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2007 : 01:48:17

This may be an easy question, not sure of the answer so I'll ask it. I'm probably going to put another coat of ablative on the boat in a week or two. It's sitting on the Trailrite trailer now and may not go back into the water for a while. How stable is the wing keel boat on the factory Trailrite trailer? Can I safely lower any of the 6 jack stands (one at a time) to get to that patch? I think the boat looks secure without any one of the front and middle stands so I'm mostly concerned with the two aft stands. There's a lot of weight back there.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2007 : 09:24:52

I just skip those pad spots.

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2007 : 15:26:26

Ron,
I was able to drop the front pads and get some paint between the pad and hull. I dropped the others but there was not enough room to fit a thin brush. The was enough room that I could see the paint still looked good so I too skipped painting under the middle and aft pads. Next time I'll look at doing something a little different. Maybe your trailer has more room to drop the pads than mine.

Edited by - on

CaptRon400
1st Mate

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USA
90 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2007 : 20:57:14

Tom -

I've got about 1 to 2 inches of play on all of the jacks, so I can drop all of the pads (one at a time) enough to get some paint in there.

I normally use an ablative paint that contains teflon which I usually burnish (scotchpad on a buffer) after it dries. It comes out looking like a teflon fying pan and is probably worth a quarter of a knot in boat speed. It's called Petit (or Woolsy depending on the age of the can) Hydrocoat. I think it would be good paint for a trailered sailboat because it's also one of the better ablatives on scrubbing / abrasion. I'm not sure that any of the hard coatings (epoxies, vinyls, et. al.) would be suitable for a boat that is resting on its trailer for part of the time. These paints normally cannot leave the water for more than a few days without losing their antifouling properties. You can power wash any ablative and it's as good as "new".

I'm thinking that I'll borrow a jack stand from the marina where I winter the C400 to use as a backup support for each trailer stand that I lower. I'd hate to back off the set bolts and have the boat fall on me. Ouch!

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2007 : 21:42:35

Ron,
I used a sharpie pen and marked a horizontal and vertical line to know where to put the pads back. I think you can see my marks in one of the pictures above. Once I lowered the pad I used a hydraulic jack and a 2x4 to raise the pad back in it position. I would take the 2x4 and place it vertical between the pad and the jack, pumped and turned the pad until my marks lined up and then tighten the bolts. Worked very well.

Edited by - Tom Potter on 06/19/2007 21:44:29

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2007 : 23:19:25

In case anyone thinks a painter's mask is sufficient for power-sanding antifouling paint, take a look at Tom's face around his nose under where the mask was. It isn't. Sorry, Tom, but that suit doesn't matter much when you're breathing that poison.

Edited by - on

CapnEddy
1st Mate

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USA
25 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2007 : 01:59:42

What, exactly, are the hazards of removing the toxic ablatives? What are the symptoms?

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2007 : 08:36:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by CapnEddy
 What, exactly, are the hazards of removing the toxic ablatives? What are the symptoms?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Since I planted that little IED, I did some Googling and looked at a number of documents, mostly on copper poisoning, including cuprous and cupric oxide... (Don't bother reading the ones about TBT--tin--which isn't used any more.) While rather vague, they discussed everything from green hair to depression to hyperactivity to osteoporosis to liver and kidney failure. The most worrisome issue appears to be liver damage showing up as much as 3-8 years out, as with other heavy metals that the liver accumulates.

Ablative paints are not as much the issue as is the copper oxides (cuprous turning into cupric) in almost all antifouling paints (35-70% by weight). Ablative paints can produce more and finer dust, but putting a sander to hard paint creates the same problem. Vacuums on sanders reduce the risks somewhat, although you have to wonder whether the vacuum itself is containing the finer particles. In most yards, professional workers must wear full respirator masks when sanding bottoms. Granted, they are exposed to a lot more than we are, but apparently no amount is good, and the results might be nothing more than a few more years that you might have lived.

BTW, for these reasons, I strongly believe in chemical strippers.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 06/20/2007 08:39:06

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2007 : 09:28:02

An advantage of VC-17 is you never sand it.

Another symptom of anti-fouling paint poisoning is a Cheshire-Cat grin.

Edited by - on

CaptRon400
1st Mate

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USA
90 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2007 : 19:01:28

Randy -

Depending on what you're putting VC-17 over, you may have to sand first. VC-17 obviously cannot go over an ablative and may require some sanding on other surfaces. It's a great paint for fresh water, but questionable for salt water and warmer climates. VC Offshore may be better for those in the ocean who want a thin film teflon. And, after X number of years, everything but ablatives will require sanding. The copper goes away, but the body of the paint stays with swiss cheese like holes (where the copper was) all over the place.

Normally, putting an ablative over an ablative requires almost no sanding except where paint has been flaking off, usually do to an earlier non-ablative first coat. Everything (copper and paint) goes away here leaving nothing in the end.

ALL bottom paints will produce toxic dust when sanded. It's the heavy metals getting into your body that's the problem. Unless you're only sanding a few small spots, you've got to get all the protection you can get.

Edited by - on

Jarrett Anderson
1st Mate

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61 Posts

Response Posted - 06/23/2007 : 02:03:10

I will never use another ablative paint that requires sanding. I wore a full respirator with compatible cartridges for the paint and was still blowing blue boogs for a week. I tried using a shop vac and the dust was too fine for the filter when sanding.

As for lowering the bunks, you will lower them just fine. Getting them back into position will require the use of some type of jack. I set up two 4' x 4' across the trailer rails as a platform for two screw jacks(construction type). I built a wooden cradle for the boat out of 4'x4' stock to follow the contour of the boat. I would pad with carpet next time. I stabilized the trailer with jack stands and the boat to the trailer with some extra tie down straps. I did the front two bunks first then the rear four. I wish I took a photo.

Don't go to heavy under the bunks. The paint is soft even when dry and will stick to the bunks, ripping the bunk carpet at launch. Yes even well after the can said it was dry. This was latter confirmed by WM rep.

I went middle of the road on paint this year and will spent the extra $100 next year.

Jarrett _/)

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