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I need Docking HELP!!

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slaedlein
1st Mate

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USA
51 Posts

Response Posted - 04/25/2007 : 15:10:29

I found that keeping the throttle at full idle will allow you to firmly contact the dock allowing your deckhand to then tie up. At least that is how it went for us the first time this year when the throttle stuck. Ugh!! After fixing that problem, docking has been different each time. I have found that I get the best control when fixing the rudder streight ahead and using just the outboard.

Edited by - on

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 04/25/2007 : 16:01:12

Just wanted to interject the fact that pot smokers aren't no better at this than sailboat drivers. Last year I had two Pontoon boats in the slip next to me. I have seen them get sideways, slam the dock head on, slide into each other etc. If I am on my boat, tied up they will wave at me like asking for docking help. never refused anyone either. Incidently I have a little pole called a dock catcher. You mount it on the side of the dock and it holds a docking line straight up and out, you can reach up and grab it as you pass near it. Helps when single handed.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/25/2007 : 16:08:13

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by bear
 Just wanted to interject the fact that pot smokers aren't no better at this than sailboat drivers.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Amen!

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2007 : 18:23:10

UPDATE: I have ordered the Catalina 250 outboard bracket and added 275 pounds of bagged crushed rock (wrapped in Home Depot wrapping plastic) as ballast in the bow. The boat now sits pretty on her lines and when the bracket arrives that should help with steering.

I also noticed an open slip further up the dock that is a straight cruise in, no turns needed. I made a slip change request and the Port Captain of the club said OK! I know I still need to practice more difficult docking, and we will, but I feel much better now.

The Admiral says that if we go to Rosario or Roche Harbor we're going for a mooring so as not to humiliate ourselves.

On another note I tried to change out the main halyard and goofed up.

So the Admiral and I lowered the mast with the boat in the water, got a new halyard installed and raised the mast back up. More difficult than using the trailer system but still do-able. Coming down was easy, going back up took a few extra people to give the initial boost. Family reunion starts tomorrow and we are ready to cruise!

Edited by - Nautiduck on 04/26/2007 18:23:58

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2007 : 18:39:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by bear
 Just wanted to interject the fact that pot smokers aren't no better at this than sailboat drivers. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

What about pot-smoking sailboat drivers????

Edited by - on

Jarrett Anderson
1st Mate

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61 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2007 : 22:46:07

Just curious, how did you lower/ raise mast minus the system on the trailer? I know how sketchy it was with the old V25.

Jarrett _/)

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 04/27/2007 : 19:28:27

Jarrett, I used the main sheet with the shackle end attached to the bow and the other end of the main sheet attached to the jib halyard which was secured to a cleat on the mast at the bitter end. I chose not to use the forestay because it has the furler on it. We also used the "baby stays" and a mast crutch on the stern. Using the main sheet gives total control and makes the job easy. Using the jib halyard worked out fine too. Only time we needed muscle was the initial lift off on the way back up. Two guys on the mast and one on the main sheet was all we needed.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 04/27/2007 19:30:23

frogger
Navigator

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USA
184 Posts

Response Posted - 04/28/2007 : 06:46:21

Wouldn't be without the softlink on my C250 WK. Have all steering and 9.8 Nissan motor controls on binnacle. Controlling boat speed is essential in docking, especially in cross-winds since the C250 has such a high profile.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 04/28/2007 : 08:24:40

Joe, do you have any pics of your binnacle motor control setup? The admiral would love that feature. Does it interfere with raising the motor?

Paul

Edited by - on

frogger
Navigator

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USA
184 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2007 : 18:45:00

Will try to get some pics this weekend showing setup. Does not interfere with raising the motor. Wheel and binnacle was for me, enclosed head for wife.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2008 : 19:14:14

Bringing back this thread from the dead... As you know I have a hard link, and amazingly I'm getting worse at docking than when I started out! I seem to turn too wide. With the hard link my rudder is limited at about 45 degrees. To make matters worse, I don't have much space to maneuver (the channel), probably 1.5 boat lengths between my slip and the one across from it. Recently I have been powering in idle to about 2 boat lengths, then hit neutral and slowly bring it into the slip. What I haven't figured out yet is when to turn (it's pretty hit and miss so far, pun intended).

I'm going to be practicing this weekend on multiple techniques AWAY from other boat if I can. Meanwhile if you could offer advice I will try your techniques out as well.

Im thinking of coming in on power, slow down to a stop just about when my bow is at my slip (as in the picture) then kick a little forward idle with tiller full to starboard. Then when the turn is initiated about half way go back to idle and bring the boat in. As you can see from the picture, our marina is very tight, since it was designed mostly for smaller powerboats in mind.

Do you guys just keep the engine on forward idle and break your speed with the turn? I'm afraid that if I miss I'm going to ram my neighbor at a 2knot speed.

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 06/27/2008 19:33:54

Al
Captain

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USA
269 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2008 : 20:18:47

My slip is similar to your drawing with the wind coming from about 110 degrees (per your drawing). I try to dock just like I park my car in the parking lot at Target. I don't measure car lengths or boat lengths or anything, just by an overall sense of where I am in relation to where I want to go, and keep making small corrections till I get there.

I approach my slip at just over a crawl at idle in Forward, a little to right of center of the channel (since I'm making a left turn into my slip, as in your drawing). The larger the radius of your turn, the "longer" the turn, giving you more time for corrections. Once I know I'm headed for the center of my slip (hopefully), I shift to neutral, check that everything's cool, then shift to Reverse, still at idle. When I'm about 10 feet from bumping the end of the slip, I blip the throttle in reverse and (try to) stop with the bow about a foot from the end of the slip.

Then I jump onto the dock on whichever side the wind is coming from, and tie up the rear, windward dockline first, then continue around the boat.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2008 : 20:21:24

Slow until bow level with finger pier.
Neutral
Turn in towards slip
Reverse and helm to stbd (reverse the stern to stbd)
Neutral
Pop into fwd intowards slip
Neutral
Take prepared lines and tie up.

(I'm presuming little wind effect and no water movement.)

Paul

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2008 : 20:39:08

Steve,
What I did to ease my turn in was to mount a roller on the upstream side of my slip.

Admittedly I haven't used it yet, but the idea seems sound. What I do is come in fairly wide and make a sharp-ish turn to starboard (my slip in your drawing would be three up on the right, 2nd to the last with a 43' ketch waiting for me to hit if I blow it). With the roller there, I can plant my bow almost on the dock & simply run in if I have to (don't want to, but it's better than hitting my neighbor). The plan is for Rita to grab the 1st or 2nd cleat on the way in with a dock line (a Nauti-dock-o-matic is probably in the works, plus I got a sturdier & longer boat hook/scrub brush handle so we have more reach) to our starboard midship's cleat (if you don't have these, get them). As you can see the first cleat's only six inches or so behind the roller, so we might miss it, but there's another about 3'-4' further in, with plenty of space beyond it for the boat to come to a stop. Once she has the cleat snagged, all I have to do is power forward a bit and the boat warps into the dock, then step down & tie off either a bow or stern line. We snake the bowline over the lifelines so all you have to do is grab the end & it pops off the lifeline ready for use. And I keep the stern line on the starboard catbird seat ready for use at the stern, and the starboard lifeline gate opened up so it's easy to get over the side.

I won't say this is easy to do, and I haven't tried it single handed, and if the tide is going out, it gets even trickier since I'm being pushed downstream into the ketch. Fortunately we've yet to completely blow it, at least while Totem (the ketch) was there. We did manage to end up in his side of the slip once when he wasn't around, and that was fairly embarrassing, but the peanut gallery was fairly small and not overly critical.

Oh, one other thing, if you keep a bit of way on, the rudder is far more responsive than if you're dead slow. This is where the hardlink comes in handy (and I've yet to figure out a good way to do one with my new engine, I've already scrapped three designs). On my San Juan 21, I could shoot a good 2-3 boat lengths after shifting into neutral, and I could scull the boat with the rudder to make corrections on my way in. Probably not so easy to do with your wheel, and not sure how effective it'd be with my tiller. It certainly was on the SJ 21. Of course that was on a lake where my only concern was wind. With our new marina, it's river current, tide & then wind. The order of the first two changes depending on the state of the tide, and wind's generally not a factor unless we have a southerly in which case it makes it particularly difficult to get in w/o playing bumper boats.

Edited by - delliottg on 06/27/2008 20:45:56

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2008 : 21:14:30

I agree with all that has been said. I am a little more fortunate in that I have my own slip(to bump into) and dont have to share. I make as wide a turn as possible and have motor as slow as possible but still have control of the boat. This of course depends on the wind and water(current). But I try to coast into slip and once about 1/4 in, I put in neutral and about a couple of feet from end of slip, put in reverse as not to hit. Also since my own slip, I come in at a slight angle but in your situation, you have to hit center approach.
It took me quite a while to get it pretty good-I am not always as good as I would like- but I have also watched others in my marina and got help that way. Practice, practice, practice......
Steve A

Edited by - piseas on 06/27/2008 21:16:07

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2008 : 21:40:42

Two things to consider:

1. "Prop-walk" is the paddle-wheel effect the prop has at low speeds, especially with a burst of throttle. In forward, prop-walk pushes the stern to starboard, turing the boat to port. In reverse, it pulls the stern to port, turning the boat to port. (Sounds somehow backwards, but it isn't.)

2. It's usually easier to make the maneuver into a slip or sidle up to a dock when moving against the wind or current--whichever will affect you most. That way, you can let the wind do some of the maneuvering for you.

With the wind behind me and crossing my slip, I coast slightly past the slip, turning to starboard toward the slip and then using reverse prop-walk to pivot the boat past 90 degrees (pulling the stern to port); then shift to forward to enter the slip at a slight upwind angle, letting the wind move the bow over to the finger dock. It's taken a while to get used to how much more a powerboat skids around and drifts sideways... No scars yet.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2008 : 22:36:01

Thanks guys, I'm going to try mostly all that you have listed. In fact I'm printing this out to make sure I do. I'll let you know what works for me. Usualy I bring it in on my own "feeling" of thing and do really well. But lately I have not been doing so well and need to have a "technique".

Here's a picture of my boat at the dock. Notice how much the aft sticks out of the dock making it impossible to grab the corner of my finger pier because I must maneuver in between 2 boats just like mine. Notice how close the boats are behind me and those a smaller powerboats. I now have boats my size behind me sticking out as much, this create a very thin channel.

I think my best bet is not to try to turn into my slip in 1 easy move. Instead I should stry to pivot the boat 90 degrees like Paul does then move it in straight. Of course in windy conditions it's another story but at least I'll have a sure way.

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 06/27/2008 22:45:40

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2008 : 23:10:58

Thank you for renovating my "hopeless docking" thread. I thought this puppy was in the archives for good.

When we reach the slip I am at .1 to .2 MPH although our slip is a drive straight in slip with almost no turn. You should use a spring line to stop you and hold you to the slip.

At least let me regain my dignity by noting the [url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=15645&SearchTerms=dock"]Nautiduck Dock-A-Matic[/url]

Edited by - Nautiduck on 06/27/2008 23:11:25

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2008 : 23:34:28

I was thinking about your NautiDuck Dock-A-Matic, but I have to get to the slip and come in straight to begin with. I come in at different angles and have bumped into my neighbors recently.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2008 : 07:31:46

Steve: Are you docking with the board up or down?

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2008 : 09:21:48

It really makes you wonder why marinas don't put the slips at an angle towards the channel!

I guess it would result in less slips.

Paul

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2008 : 10:08:25

Steve, looking at your photo I can see that my method of using mid ship's cleats isn't going to be of much help to you, your finger slip barely makes it past your midships. You could still use the dock roller though, so you can lay your port side right up against it without fear of scraping your hull. I know this doesn't sound like the best seamanship, theoretically we should know exactly what to do, but in the real world of currents, wind, and tides, to keep from hitting your neighbor or dock with your boat, I don't mind using a little help. We can't all be Captain Ron and park a boat sideways into a dock from a dead run. "Just a little something I learned while driving the Conny".

Edited by - on

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2008 : 11:07:12

I agree with Dave Bristle, I have had as much trouble with wind etc as anyone. I did find backing in helped, it gives you something to grab onto or grab, at least when single-handed. I found this year to use the motor only for maneuvering in close. I usually try and pin the bow on the dock and prop walk the stern over and leave the engine running in gear until the boat is at least partially secure. You do have a problem with that short a slip and would suggest you practice backing in......

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2008 : 11:09:36

Looking at those docks, I'm inclined to think they're designed for stern-to docking. Do you have enough room to manoeuvre for that? I'd install a dock roller in any event.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2008 : 15:21:12

If your rudder allows, trying sculling to pivot the boat when turning. As you can see in this picture, my marina doesn't have much room to manuever, just a wee bit over a boat length, and sculling helps kick the stern over enabling me to pivot on the keel like a top.

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