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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Catalina Smile ??

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Bill Sloane
1st Mate

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USA
91 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/10/2007 : 23:28:06

Does anyone know about a Catalina smile? It is a smile shaped crack in the hull adjacent to the keel. I am about to decide whether or not to buy a bigger Catalina (blasphemy I know) and the surveyor has told me that the boat has a Catalina smile. He says it is common and can be sanded and sealed.

Bill Sloane
Suede Shoes C-25 SR/SK No. 496

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2007 : 08:37:52

Torque the keel bolts, seal and sand, then the smile is on you instead of the boat. It is never blasphemy to move on, if the Catalina 25 was a crappy boat you would not have learned to love sailing, thank your little boat and go.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5881 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2007 : 09:18:05

I don't know why they call it a Catalina smile, because other boats with bolt-on keels have them too. Before I bought my current boat, I looked at a C&C 38 that had one, and the broker told me the same thing - don't worry about it. It's no big deal. You have to question it when a broker tells you that, because he wants to sell the boat. It's usually caused by a boat that has been grounded hard at enough speed to move the keel slightly. If the keel moves far enough, it can break the watertight seal between the hull and keel, and that can be a major problem on a big boat. The smile on the boat that I was looking at had been repaired with epoxy, and the repair was cracked, which told me that the keel was still moving slightly as the boat heeled. I decided not to pursue that boat any further, even though the broker, a C&C dealer, offered to remove and re-mount the keel, if I bought it.

I agree with Frank that it might not be as much of a concern on a Catalina 25 as on a C&C, because of the fact that Catalina 25 hulls are solid fiberglass, and C&C hulls of that era are balsa cored. But I'd point it out to a surveyor, and ask him to look at it first, so you could cancel the rest of the survey and only pay for an abbreviated survey, if the keel is enough of a concern to be a deal breaker. In either case, I'd also reduce my offer on the boat, if I decided to buy it.

Edited by - on

Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2007 : 09:34:53

Hold on a second. As the guy who sold Suede Shoes to Bill, I have spent a bit of time around and under the boat. Shoes is most definitely a Swing Keel boat.

I was always under the impression, and the letters above would seem to confirm, that the "Catalina smile" was found on FIXED keel boats. I thought they were always the "fin", but it might be true for the wing...dunno.

I think whatever is there might well be something "else". Whatever the case, if the surveyer says it can be sanded and filled, I would do that.....or let the buyer do it! It must not be all that "structural".

Gary B.

s/v Encore! #685 SK/SR

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5881 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2007 : 09:47:42

Gary, as I understand it, Bill isn't saying Suede Shoes has a Catalina smile. He's thinking about buying a bigger Catalina that has a Catalina smile.

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Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 04/12/2007 : 00:32:05

Duh......I suppose you are right, Steve! You know what happens when you "assume": you make an "ass" out of UMA Thurman......

I just "assumed" he was selling Suede Shoes B4 looking for a larger Catalina.

Thanks,

Gary

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/12/2007 : 00:50:23

Had your glasses prescription checked recently, Gary?

Edited by - on

Ericson33
Admiral

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USA
892 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2007 : 00:11:10

Not a huge project

http://www.capri25.com/IMAGES/photos/115.gif

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djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2007 : 09:09:34

I thought this was a Catalina smile.

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jking
Navigator

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110 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2007 : 11:34:00

Dennis:

There has GOT to be a good story behind that photo--are you sure you don't have a picture of a Hunter?!?

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2007 : 11:38:31

That's not a Catalina Smile, that's JAWS!

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djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2007 : 12:14:59

Hi John, that is from a thread in the C25 forum from just a couple months back. That is why the CD forestay/anchor roller mod is so important, so this does not happen. I am not sure if it applies to the 250 though. Cheers.

Edited by - djn on 04/13/2007 12:15:32

jking
Navigator

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110 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2007 : 15:03:09

Dennis:

When I was shopping for a boat about 2 years ago, I was offered a 'good deal' on a boat that could be 'fixed up just like new.' The boat was a new (2005) Hunter 25 shoal keel. The original owner was in the parking lot of his local facility, had just stepped the mast in preparation for its launch and madien voyage, and was nice enough to move boat and trailer so that a larger boat could get to the ramp. Unfortunately, some unkind city official had ordered a telephone pole placed so that a wire (fortunately not a power line) clipped this boat's mast.

The result: The mast remained stepped to the deck, the forestay remained attached to its fitting, and the shrouds remained attached to the chainplates. The hull-deck joint, however, split from the stem fitting to just forward of the cabin windows, creating a much wider set of jaws than depicted in your post. Some damage was obviously done to hull and deck, but the flawed construction implied by the joint separation was so impressive, that I bought a Catalina.

Wish I had taken a photo.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2007 : 15:10:21

That's the Catalina Scream! ...accompanied by "DUMP THE JIB AND TURN DOWNWIND!!" By the time they built my '85, they'd upgraded the stem fitting with a tang bolted about 6" down the bow. No more screams.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 04/13/2007 15:11:12

Bill Sloane
1st Mate

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USA
91 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2007 : 11:39:17

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Not a huge project

C.S. McKillip
1980 Capri 25
---Völaré---

--Hull #17--
_Webmaster_
WSC Tulsa, Ok.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
C.S. McKillip: That is a great drawing showing how to fix a smile. Thank you.

Gary B.: Suede Shoes is not for sale at this time. The smile is on a Catalina 320. If we end up buying it, then I may decide to sell Shoes. But I know you traded up to a bigger boat and then came back to a C-25, so I am being cautious about all this.
One thing that makes me cautious is the Catalina 320 Association website appears to have no chatter at all. Some posts are 2 and 3 years old. What is the deal with that? I realize there are less 320's around than C-25's.

Bill Sloane
Suede Shoes C-25 SR/SK No. 496

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2007 : 11:53:00

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Bill Sloane
 I realize there are less 320's around than C-25's.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
That's the deal... With some 6000 C-25s built, a rather small proportion of owners "chatter" here (even including the ex-owners

)--maybe 1% or fewer. So what's 1% of the 320 hulls built?

Edited by - on

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