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What tow vehicle do y'all use?

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JaimeZX
1st Mate

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USA
34 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/04/2007 : 11:11:21

I need to get a bigger truck before I can get a Catalina 25. I've gone through a number of articles on different models and the only one I've found (that wasn't a Deisel 250/2500 equivalent) with enough tow capacity for one of these boats is the Dodge Durango. Yet I'm certain everyone here doesn't have a Durango or a Ram 2500...

So what do y'all tow with, and how is it working for you? Recommendatons? Thanks in advance! :)

Warm regards,

Jim

1972 Hobie 16
1975 Hobie 14

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2007 : 11:32:55

There are lots of questions that will determine what will work. I use a 5.0 liter 2000 Mountaineer with a tow package and it does fine going the 35 miles I drive over flat good road twice a year. I would not think of doing much more than that but I am fine with what I do now. To help with the situation I added electric brakes to my trailer which help a vehicle like mine stay in control.

Wider may be better but long is good too.

Edited by - on

JaimeZX
1st Mate

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USA
34 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2007 : 11:38:36

Frank, thanks for that. Since I'm in the AF I would probably be towing the boat long distances (1000 mi+) every 2-3 years. Plus shorter trips in-between.

Tell me if my logic is wrong here:
Boat: 4500 lbs
Trailer: ~1000 lbs
Misc equipment thrown in boat: ~500 lbs
Total: ~6000 lbs

So I need something with that kind of tow capacity to feel comfortable trying to pull the thing up a boat ramp (or through the Rockies, for example) would you agree?

Jim

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2007 : 11:56:29

Since I retired from the AF a while ago, I know that when you make these moves every 2-3 years, you'll be carrying a lot more than just the boat with you. So, you'll need something big enough to haul your normal PCS stuff as well as the boat. Think BIG TRUCK. F250 Quad cab comes to mind.

I think you got the weight about right. If I were you, I'd look hard at a water ballast version. A lot less weight to trailer. There's a great thread on this site that is chronicling the adventures of trailering a WB. But, even with the WB, they're using a big Dodge.

Edited by - on

JaimeZX
1st Mate

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USA
34 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2007 : 12:25:13

Right. I want a Ram 2500; but that's a bit more than I can afford right now. Looking for something that'll do the job in the interim.

Edited by - on

At Ease
Admiral

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672 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2007 : 12:30:24

I've made my share of PCS moves too, retired Army,...as mentioned, get a 3/4 ton at least. If you don't want a crew cab truck, a 3/4 ton Suburban/Excursion could handle it. You'll find for long tows, a diesel is hard to beat. I have a Chevy Duramax dually that I use to tow a 14k 5th wheel. The truck drives, and the engine acts, the same empty or towing...even runs the same rpm. The gassers scream bloody murder with the rpm going very high, it is not a pleasant experience, BTDT.

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britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2007 : 12:53:08

We spent a long while researching trucks before we opted for the F150 4x4 Lariet. It has a tow capacity of 9,000lbs. We launch JD C250 WB every trip, about 15 times a year and growing. The truck pulls it up th ramp without any strain and on the highway I keep our speed <= 70 or permited. Our choice was based upon a bunch of things including that our family up north is in Ohio and that we'll be tugging the boat across the state. My confidence in the ability to pull the boat up those long hills in northen Georgia is very high. Now the truck is over a year old, the MPG has improved - we're getting 11.8 in very local driving (I really should not drive to work when I can walk it in 20mins)

Everytime Peggy drives the truck as it pulls the boat up the ramp she gets out smiling "That was easy" and that feature alone makes the truck worthwhile.

I'm certain that the towing capacity of the equivalant work truck would be the same but the bottom line price would be wildly lower!

Paul

Edited by - on

kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2007 : 13:16:54

I use an '01 Dodge Durango with 5.9L, 4WD and towing package to tow in Oregon and Washington, 200 miles is the farthest so far, but through low mountains and hills. It works just fine for my C250WK. Your load calculation is the same one I did. For a 250WB, it would be about 1000lbs less I think, but I am less sure of that. I use an equalizing hitch (www.equalizerhitch.com is the web site for the one I use), I think that makes a positive difference.

I think from the way people describe them, and now that my situation is different, I would prefer a diesel 3/4 ton 4WD. But I can't afford it. The Durangos can be had especially cheaply with the high gas prices, you can pick up one like mine (around here anyway) for less than 10K, maybe even as low as 8K.

Edited by - on

JaimeZX
1st Mate

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Response Posted - 02/04/2007 : 13:28:48

Kevin, thanks that's helpful too. I definately want a deisel Ram 2500 but that's probably 2-3 years down the road. What kind of mileage do you get (a)just around town, (b) highway without the boat, (c) towing the boat?

I have a little Isuzu pickup which I love dearly and wouldn't sell except that there's no way it would tow a C25, except maybe in 1st gear across a parking lot. :)~ It does do amazingly well with my H16 on the freeway though - 80mph is no problem except in headwind. lol

Jim

Edited by - JaimeZX on 02/04/2007 13:29:04

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2007 : 16:49:57

We towed our 250WK 2,000 miles with a 1/2 ton Yukon. It did OK but I would want a 3/4 ton if I were getting a new vehicle. The Yukon was acceptable but not ideal. I use an equalizing hitch. To be frank I would not recommend any thing less than 3/4 ton. Durangos and Yukons and Mountaineers may be able to pull the trailer but I wouldn't want to be in a quick stop situation with one. The trailer plus 250WK plus outboard plus spare tire, etc had the trailer weighing more than the 5800lb Yukon. That is not good. Go big.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 02/04/2007 16:52:31

Leon Sisson
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Response Posted - 02/04/2007 : 16:58:02

For a lot less than the price of a new truck you could get a well used 3/4 ton extended cab pickup. Diesels seem to depreciate slower, so a gas powered truck would be cheaper. I'm not convinced a huge engine is needed, but heavy suspension and a long wheelbase are important.

If you also need a daily driver, there are many used 4-cylinder Japanese econo cars to choose from.

-- Leon Sisson

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2007 : 17:13:35

Jim,
Rita & I tow our C250 WK with an F-250 7.3 liter diesel 4x4, and in general it's as if the boat wasn't back there, even going over mountains, it's amazing. The water temperature doesn't even go up, not even a little bit. I asked a lot of the same questions you are in the forum and decided on the Ford because all other things being equal, it seemed to be the least loud of the 10 or so other trucks we looked at, plus it was the one that made Rita's eyes get shiney (it's a Lariat model, leather, electric everything, etc.). We initially wanted a Dodge with the Cummins diesel simply because they have a good reputation, and with the Cummins, there are fewer parts to go wrong (6 cyl vs 8 cyl). But all of the Dodges we drove had something wrong with them and I've long since learned to not buy someone else's projects. Had I had more time to look around, I may have bought a different truck, but I was on a schedule. I wish I could have found a club cab long bed version, but I've got the super duty short bed, which contributes to some porpoising when we're going down the road. I think this can be solved by moving some weight around. And as hard as <b>this </b>truck is to park, I can't imagine what it's like with the longer wheelbase. Similarly to you, I had an older Toyota that I had intended to drive into the ground, but I knew it wasn't up for the towing aspect. Had Toyota made a full sized diesel, I'd have bought one of those, but while there are rumors of one in the works, I haven't seen one in the showroom yet. The difference in the interiors between even a brand new Ford, Chevy, GM, or Dodge & a Toyota is night and day. I'll get off my Toyota soapbox now..

As far as mileage goes, that's been the biggest disappointment, I was expecting to get at least about 16mpg with the diesel and hoped for 18, the reality is I have to work hard to get 14, and about 10 when towing the boat. This past Friday I had a 4" intake & exhaust installed on the truck simply to try to get a bit more mileage. I figured if I can get another 2mpg out of it, it'll amortize the cost in about 3 months at $3/gallon. Now that diesel has dropped into the $2.50 range, it'll take a bit more, but summer's coming, and we all know what fuel prices do then. Hopefully it was worth the investment.

You should be able to find a decent truck in the 10k range I'd imagine, but do your homework, and check everything on the truck before you sign the paperwork. My truck's batteries died four days after I bought it. Fortunately the dealer ponied up to pay for the two Sears diehards I had put in, so they've won a warmer spot in my heart the next time I look for another truck. I wasn't so fortunate with the high pressure oil pump that blew it's seals, that ended up costing me close to $1k to fix because the extended warranty I bought decided it wasn't covered. Caveat emptor.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2007 : 18:06:58

> Total: ~6000 lbs

Pretty close for an unladen Swing Keel. I think I went across the scales last time about 6,300. I keep the engine, rudder, fuel tank etc. in the back of the truck when towing. With a weeks cruising supplies, two batteries, full water tank, you'll be right up at 6500 lbs.

I tow with a '95 Ford Diesel Powerstroke 4x4 extended cab. 5 speed manual, towing package with 4:10 limited slip rear end.
It has plenty of power, and the loooong wheelbase give a lot of stability on the highway (but is a bear to turn around in a tight spot). At 7,300 lbs unladen it has a lot of mass... more than the boat and trailer.

I'm lucky to have one of the early Powerstrokes that got exceptionally good mileage.
Around town to/from work, 17 mpg. Steady highway at 62 mph 21-23 (62mph = sweet spot). Towing a C25 through coastal mountains, 14-1/2. I haven't pulled the C25 on a long I-5 run yet, but I expect the mileage would be around 15-16. Above the engines sweet spot (2100-2200 rpm), fuel consumption climbs rapidly.

As others have pointed out, your towing venue make a big difference in what will and won't work. There's no 'easy' way out of the Northern California coast... with substantial mountains in all directions I purchased a truck literally 'loaded for bear'. Every time I see that huge boat back there, I'm happy that I did.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2007 : 19:59:54

Watching the game....

Just saw an ad for a full size Toyota. The point they made was that it could pull it up a steep hill AND stop it coming down the other side. They put it on a see-saw kind of thing pulling a 10,000 trailer. Pretty cool way to make this point.

Edited by - John Russell on 02/04/2007 20:03:35

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2007 : 20:35:58

My physics flag went off. I don't believe what they want us to believe. I think there were serious dual axle electric brakes at work on that trailer... they never said the trailer had no brakes.

Edited by - on

Tom Trovato
Deckhand

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7 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2007 : 21:32:57

I will be towing my C25 swing twice a year from home to slip and back. A total of about 20 miles. For $29 a day and .70 a mile I can rent a U-haul. So, for less than $100 a year - including fuel - I can haul my boat and drive whatever else I want the other 363 days! Do the math for your situation - frequency of towing and mileage.

Edited by - on

JaimeZX
1st Mate

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USA
34 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2007 : 22:48:05

Hey guys, I really appreciate your thoughts.

Tom, I don't have a slip, it'd be parked in the club parking lot. We launch & retrieve our boats when we want to use them. Otherwise, you're absolutely right, that'd be a great plan. :)

To make sure I understand y'all, if you were in my shoes you'd defer the purchase of a C25 until after I have a deisel truck, rather than getting a Durango (for example) and maybe being able to get a C25 a few months after that. Is that correct?

Jim

Edited by - on

sweetcraft
Admiral

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USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2007 : 23:36:17

I've used only gas rigs with my sailboats over the years and with automatics. The 91 Ford 250 extended cab with a 460 is my current truck, 12,000lbs towing. Like Clambeach says the long wheelbase sure adds stability. I can not justify a diesel expense with the few miles that I tow but every other year the 700+ miles one way to the San Juans and back with a big engine and big brakes. The automatics allow others to help drive and launch the 25 and I leave everything on the boat which does make it easier for me but the weight does go up. My boat gets heavier every year so I do safety checks each time towing of tires and brakes. The boat was weighed on a travel lift in 1999 at 6000lbs so I figure at least 7500lbs with the trailer. I do regular maintenance on the pickup besides oil and filter with also replacing belts and hoses and seals when needed so I am not out on I5 getting towed and repaired. This is how I now tow with a pickup which I paided $7,240 at a large car dealer 6 years ago who safety checked it before selling it. Hopes this gives you a picture of what I found for my tow.

Edited by - on

sweetcraft
Admiral

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USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2007 : 23:36:59

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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3704 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2007 : 23:38:50

Jim, if you just need to tow from your spot at the club to the ramp then the Durango will be just fine. I intend to use my Yukon to tow the 300 miles to Puget Sound. I'll just go slow and be extra careful. All we're saying is that if you are buying a vehicle specifically to tow then a 3/4 ton pickup would be the best choice.

All of these vehicles get lousy mileage. An SUV wont save you money on fuel vs a pickup.

Edited by - on

bear_tm4
Navigator

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USA
143 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2007 : 00:16:24

Jim,
I have a Dodge Ram 1500 4x4 4 door. I am military and just made a move from Kansas to Kentucky. I have a Fin keel, with some crazy trailer. I have tow package and had no trouble what soever. It pulled fine, never had any trouble at all. I do recomend brakes on the trailer thats a big plus. I had truck loaded as well, so was pulling a load. that hemi really goes. I forgot to mention because of problems with the trailer and placement of boat, I had put on 400lbs of dirt in bags in front. check the picture, its my rig..minus the extension for putting in obviously

Well thats how I get my boat around.
cheers

Edited by - on

bear_tm4
Navigator

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USA
143 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2007 : 00:21:02

Well thats how I get my boat around.
cheers

Edited by - on

tmhansen
Captain

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USA
397 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2007 : 00:31:59

Since we needed to use our tow vehicle for other family trips as well as towing the boat we got a used Suburban 2500 4x. It gets 10 mpg in town and 12 on the highway with its 454 v8 gas engine. Did not see many if any diesels to choose from and the GM diesel/transmission did not have a good reputation in the model years we were shopping. With the boat we get 8 mpg and it works hard up hills but it does go. Going up our in local Cuesta grade I have my foot to the floor. On the highway it does fine. We have had issues in the past with non functioning trailer brakes or the boat not being loaded on the trailer correctly and the truck dealt with these ok. To ease my conscience regarding the mpg I bought a 125cc scooter for my 4 mile commute so now the truck sits idle at home unless we need it. But I am in CA so I don't have to deal with snow or really very much rain.
I guess my take on it is buy something used that works for you and get your boat sooner rather than later and then you can upgrade the tow vehicle later if you want.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2007 : 06:39:16

A Catalina 22 is a fine boat.

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2007 : 09:25:27

>"you'd defer the purchase of a C25 until after I have a deisel truck, rather than getting a Durango (for example) and maybe being able to get a C25 a few months after that. Is that correct?"

If your plans call for a 1,000 mile drive each year, I'd realy plan on getting some sort of full-size pickup rated for towing at least 8,000 lbs. (diesel or not). After the recent gas price jumps you may be able to find some really nice used ones on the market at reasonable prices. If you don't need to make the big drive to do your sailing, the Dakota should be fine. Hopefully the quality of Dodge products have improved since the last one I owned.

Having good brakes on the trailer is essential, no matter what you're driving. My gross weight towing the C25 is nearly 14,000 lbs. That's a lot of mass to bring to a halt.

IMHO: I think makers often have 'aggressive' tow ratings... to look better in the advertisements. That's why I recommend purchasing towing equipment rated substantially 'over-capacity'. i.e. If your load is 7,000 lbs, get equipment rated for 8,000+. (etc.) You'll have a safer drive and the rig will last a lot longer. This advice also applies to brakes, tires, axles, hitches etc...

Edited by - on

kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2007 : 09:55:33

First, if you are going to use a Durango, you MUST have trailer brakes. I can really feel mine working, and would not like to drive very far with them out of service.

Second, although I would like a larger vehicle (because the Durango feels at its capacity when towing), I would drive it once every year or two several thousand miles for moves, rather than not get the boat I want.

I think the C25's are a little heavier than my C250WK, but not hugely so. Perhaps a C25 owner can correct me if I have it wrong.

The mileage on the Durango sucks, that is why you can buy them cheap. Hwy, not towing, 17. Around town, not towing, 12. Towing on the hwy, 9.

Also, if you DO get a Durango, make sure you have the towing package, the 5.9L engine, and that you replace whatever brake shoes are in it with the very best you can buy. Stock Durango brake shoes are not really up to towing. And if you are below 20%, change them before you start your trip.

Get the trailer brakes. The stock C250 trailer brakes are weight shift actuated (as opposed to electric), which works fine.

Edited by - on

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