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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Which one to buy and why

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John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 11/21/2006 : 12:13:56

Well, I obviously have little to do at work today....

Headroom isn't a big deal, I'm 5'4". Ease of use is the real key for me. Singlehanding is important since the boss is less committed than I. I really think an outboard is preferred. If it breaks, I can throw it in the back of the truck cheaper than having the mechanic drive HIS truck to the slip. I'm not very mechanically inclined so significant repairs are a checkbook entry. It's a thin checkbook.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 11/21/2006 : 15:38:15

John,

I mentioned you to my co-owner...Harvey claims he wants to shake free of the outlaws sometime this weekend. They have invaded the town and he figures Thursday will be more than any man can take.

So if you are interested in looking at the boat this weekend it would give him an opportunity to break free....(I'm also off all week so that would work too).

Duane

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/21/2006 : 16:33:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 ...Headroom isn't a big deal, I'm 5'4". Ease of use is the real key for me. Singlehanding is important since the boss is less committed than I. I really think an outboard is preferred...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Well then a good C-25 can hardly be beat. BTW, I'd suggest that the roller furling and main halyard led to the cockpit are more important to a single-hander on Lake Erie than to some you've heard from who sail on inland lakes. Jim Baumgart notwithstanding (he's a sailing animal!), scrambling up to the mast or onto the foredeck is one thing on a little lake, and quite another thing when you're alone and the boat is pitching in some significant seas. I guess it's an acquired taste, and maybe I've just gotten too old...

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 11/21/2006 : 16:50:48

Sailing on Lake Erie 80% of the time, a roller furler would be nice, but not an absolute necessity, even when single handing. Lines led aft are more important by far.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/21/2006 : 17:19:13

As a singlehander on Lake Erie, I'll take the furler over anything, even the autopilot. The only lines I've led aft are the cunningham, outhaul, and the topping lift (vang is accessible from the cockpit). My main halyard was once led aft, but I changed it back to the mast since I like to stow and bag my main when I bring her down.

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John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 11/21/2006 : 19:32:35

Lines aft was a given all along. Roller furler would be nice. I thought of it more for convenience rather than safety but that obviously makes sense to avoid the foredeck in the Lake Erie chop. I've been on the foredeck on my DS II in the rollers without a keel. Not fun. Of course, I'm always within swimming distance of the beach

with a PFD on.

Duane, I'll send you an e-mail with my phone number. I'd love to see the boat sometime this weekend. Is it still in the water or on a cradle?

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 11/21/2006 : 19:35:42

What's a Cunningham?

See, I told ya I'm a novice.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/21/2006 : 20:36:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 What's a Cunningham?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

John,

A cunningham is a control line that adjusts the luff tension on the mainsail thereby moving the draft of the sail either fore or aft.

The cringle for it is about a foot above the tack of the main sail.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 11/21/2006 : 20:38:39

Cunningham is a small block and tackle setup, usually with a hook on one end. the hook slips through a kringle (grommet) on the mainsail. This is located about 1 foot above the foot of the sail along the luff. The main function of the cunningham is to adjust tension along the luff from the bottom of the sail.

I'll give you a call ... The Flying Wasp is currently on Jack Stands at Edgewater Yacht
Leave it to Lucier to beat me to my post with a diagram from the files none-the-less

Edited by - Champipple on 11/21/2006 21:38:29

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/21/2006 : 20:40:04

...sorta like tuning the shocks on a racecar.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 11/21/2006 : 21:43:00

Cool picture Don. I figured it was something more interesting to racers than laid back singlehanded cruisers like myself. I'm currently interested in getting sails up. I imagine that one day I'll be looking for fine tuning. Although, would I be right in assuming that leading the cunningham aft would help to reef the main in a blow? I guess that would be helpful for a singlehander.

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 11/21/2006 : 22:09:24

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 Cool picture Don. I figured it was something more interesting to racers than laid back singlehanded cruisers like myself. I'm currently interested in getting sails up. I imagine that one day I'll be looking for fine tuning. Although, would I be right in assuming that leading the cunningham aft would help to reef the main in a blow? I guess that would be helpful for a singlehander.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Maybe, but it's doubtful. Dropping your halyard is going to be more effective than trying to mess with the cunningham. On our boats, most of us have a jiffy reef or some derivation thereof and the mainsail is reefed with a single pull of one line that would pull in as the halyard is eased.

dw

Edited by - on

bear_tm4
Navigator

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USA
143 Posts

Response Posted - 11/21/2006 : 22:58:02

John,
Depending on when you get your boat, and where its at, I might be convinced to let you use my trailer to get it to the water. Or help you, Have Ram 1500 with Hemi, does fine job of pulling that boat and trailer, pulled from Ks at 65 when I was being good, and little better when not,...But that depends on time of year and if mine is off the trailer..stuff like that, I am only seven hours away...roughly. Just food for thought. I will do my best. I think we could work something out.
Barry

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John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 11/22/2006 : 08:24:08

Barry,
That's amazingly generous. Thank you. Hopefully I'll find one on or near my Lake Erie home but I'll keep your offer in mind.
Thank you,
John

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 11/22/2006 : 19:05:50

Duane,
I deleted your phone message instead of saving it. I won't say I was driving at the time cuz that would be illegal.

Saturday at around 11 would be great. I'll meet you at the EYC gate?????

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 11/22/2006 : 20:23:00

John,

It is only illegal around here in Brooklyn Heights (incidentally they were the first in the US to make it illegal, along with the first to have a seat belt law) and some locations over on the east side...

I'll leave your name at the gate. We are on the hard over by the hoist....

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 11/23/2006 : 11:05:54

Let's pretend..........

Other than cost, why would I not prefer a 250?

Also, what's up with water ballast? Seems to me that it just would not perform as well. I've heard the MacGregor described as something that tries to be on both sides of the fence (Sail/power) and does neither very well. The implication was that the WB made for a good beer platform at the dock and little else. Not that there's anything wrong with that

. Is that true for the WB Cat?

Edited by - John Russell on 11/23/2006 11:15:55

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 11/23/2006 : 12:23:13

I don't think the water ballast is as bad as the Mac's. Emptying water prior to trailering gets rid of a lot of weight. It's no where near a Macgregor as far as sitting on the fence. The 250 is still a sailboat with a hull speed around 6. The macgregor is a stinkboat with a stick coming out of the coachroof.

The 250's are a bit more open down below. They sail well and have thier own good and bad points. I personally do not like the cabin of the 250. I also don't like the minor changes in the lines of the boat. They are a bit less stable (my opinion based on max sail cloth recommended).

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 11/23/2006 : 12:34:24

"water ballast is as bad as the Mac's"

The earlier Mac 26 'classic' really isn't that bad of a boat for a WB. It does suffer from some of the same rudder/control problems as the water ballasted Catalinas. I think it's due to the 'generation 1' water ballasted boats not having enough 'boat in the water' for good control.

IMHO: If MacGregor had continued to develop and refine the 26C design they could have had a really nice boat. (more centerboard, add a skeg, better rudder, rotating mast)

Like most sailors, I don't think much of the later 26X (shudders)... the newest 26M seems to offer a few improvements but still has way to much freeboard for the hull length. (IMHO: Basically a floating RV)

That said, Roger (MacGregor) knows markets, he's selling all the boats he can build.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/23/2006 : 13:46:44

There is a thread on the 250 forum that mentions headroom, The WK is 5'5" at the hatch, the WB is 4'8", my 89 wing is 5'10". That means that even at 5'4" you will be ducking everywhere but at the hatch on either 250. Any year 25 will give you headroom.
A 25 is a happy boat between 20 and 30 knots of true wind. It only gets testy above 30.

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John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 11/23/2006 : 18:04:40

That's kinda what I thought. I guess it's gonna be a fin for me.

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 11/23/2006 : 18:52:28

Don't rule out the swing...It is freshwater so once you are in the water you can put her down and leave it. If you are worried about the maintenance it is literally an hour or two project every 3 or 4 years. The original cable ball and pin on the wasp went for 20+ years.

Plus, since you are in Cleveland, you are coming out once a year regardless so you don't have to schedule anything special either.

[qutoe]A 25 is a happy boat between 20 and 30 knots of true wind. It only gets testy above 30.[/quote]

I'd say 14-18 would be the "happy" lake erie range. 20 and up, unless out of the south will get sloppy quick.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 11/23/2006 : 21:42:09

I haven't ruled out anything yet but I'm just leaning towards a fin.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2006 : 13:41:32

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 I haven't ruled out anything yet but I'm just leaning towards a fin.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
In fresh water, I'd say just find a good C-25 and buy it--the downsides to the swinger are really just in salt water, and older fins are also cast iron (up till about 1983 I believe). The newer wings have the nicest interiors, but generally come at a premium. They're all good--especially if they've been cared for. The 250, WB or wing, is easier for trailering, while the C-25 was my boat of choice for sailing from a slip in bigger water.

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John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 11/28/2006 : 17:42:09

Time to put this thread to rest. Thank you for all of the great information. I've learned a lot. I think I've found new friends as well.

I have another question but, I think I'll start a new thread. Whaddya know about surveyors?

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