Association Forum - Two Good Questions and A Rookie Question

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Two Good Questions and A Rookie Question

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

RickStevens
1st Mate

Member Avatar

USA
62 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/30/2005 : 10:06:18

I have a couple of questions related to maintenance and storage in a fresh-water environment. This is going to be long-winded, so sorry....

First, I have seen conflicting advice on whether to keep the swing keel down or up when the C25 is not in use. It seems to make sense, in salt water, to keep the keel up when it's not in use (after a fresh-water rinse, of course) due to electrolysis, etc. This is what Catalina recommends in the Owner's Manual.

On the other hand, I think I remember seeing on this forum that keeping the keel down actually saves wear and tear on the cable and other moving parts. Considering that a PO replaced all of this about 3 years ago, I would just as soon keep it healthy for as long as possible.

So - Question #1: Keel up or keel down?

My second question relates to cleaning the deck and cockpit surfaces. I am moored on the Potomac River, and the marina is controlled by the Park Service. Becuase of this there are some very stringent rules requiring the use of bio-degradable cleaning solutions. Even without those rules, I'm not sure I'd want to use something like Tilex on a vessel at dock.

With a lot of scrubbing, I've managed to do a decent job of making "no name" presentable but things still are not up to snuff. I know I can haul it out of the water, but I don't want to pay for both winter storage and slip fees (this is a primo slip, folks

) so it's staying where it is except for seasonal bottom cleaning and painting. And towing it home is problematic: No trailer, and my Saturn Vue with 100k miles on it would not like the job.

Question #2: Does anybody on the forum have any experience with, or recommendations for, a good environmentally friendly cleaning solution?

Question #3 is the rookie question: What the heck is this square wooden thingie on my port transom?

Thanks, all, and Happy New Year! (And thanks for ignoring all the stains, mold, barnacles and other stuff. It's going to be a busy spring-time.)

"Not Renamed Yet" - '82/C25/SK/TR

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2005 : 10:23:06

Just my opinion here . . .

#1 Keep it down unless your "parking spot" is so shallow it doesn't allow you to store it in the down position

#2 Simple Green

#3 Spare motor mount

Edited by - on

Lightnup
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1016 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2005 : 10:28:32

Rick -

1. I think if you do an archive search, you'll find enough discussion on the "up or down" subject to keep you busy reading during the off-season. Due to having only 4' under my slip at low tide, I always kept my keel up when I had a swinger, but if I had been in deeper water, I probably would have left it in the down position to avoid the dreaded cable snap, when the keel drops unfettered, cracks the hull and sinks the boat. (It happened to the previous owner of my previous C25.)

2. The seasoned owners here will likely give you lots of cleaner suggestions but have you asked for recommendations at your local marina or marine supply store?

3. No clue. Mount for gas grill? Mount for small trolling motor? Place to bang head against after running aground?

Steve

Edited by - on

RickStevens
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
62 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2005 : 10:37:06

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Lightnup
1. I think if you do an archive search, ....

2. The seasoned owners here will likely give you lots of cleaner suggestions but have you asked for recommendations at your local marina or marine supply store?

3. No clue. ... Place to bang head against after running aground?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

1. Good plan. I've done so many other searches I should've done that first.
2. Their stuff was only so-so.
3. It works well for that.

Thanks.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2005 : 13:00:47

Hmmm...a good environmentally friendly cleaning solution?...That's almost an oxymoron!

That brown scum line around your rudder/hull will disappear using toilet bowl cleaner, but it's not too environmentally friendly. I use it after I haul out at the end of the season. Star Brite's old hull and deck cleaner use to be the same stuff as toilet bowl cleaner.

Starbrite does have an environmentally safe cleaner, but I don't know how effective it is.

[url="http://www.starbrite.com/productdetail.cfm?ID=1493&ProductCat=Marine&ProductSCat=Cleaners%20%2D%20Washes%20Marine&ProductSSCat=Hull%20Cleaners"]

[/url]

This hull cleaner is acid based.

[url="http://www.starbrite.com/productdetail.cfm?ID=1054&ProductCat=Marine&ProductSCat=Cleaners%20%2D%20Washes%20Marine&ProductSSCat=Hull%20Cleaners"]

[/url]
(Click on the pictures to take you to the website}

As for the board on the stern rail, it maybe a rail mount motor mount for a dinghy motor.

Edited by - dlucier on 12/30/2005 13:07:35

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2005 : 13:09:18

Hi Rick,

My answer to # 1 you don't want to hear.

# 2 I use sun light mostly with rain water

# 3 It's a ginghy motor mount

Have a Happy year ahead

Val on the hard DAGNABIT # 3936 Patchogue

Edited by - on

atgep
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

1009 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2005 : 13:14:02

If you add a washdown pump, you can leave the park area and not be so restricted.

I have been using soft scrub+bleach and have amazing results. Another cleaner that works wonders is Barkeepers friend. It does not have bleach and uses oxalic acid. Not sure how that compares to bleach for our aquatic friends or the National Parks Service.

If you are given the standard, soap and water answer, try using baking soda as this will at least give you some grit.

Tom.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3408 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2005 : 13:15:34

Rick,

Good questions and helpful answers for me as well.

By the way - regarding dry storage at Washington Sailing Marina: I was surprised to learn that the Wait List for dry storage is longer than the list for wet storage. Apparently the Park Dept controls how much land they allocate to the Marina for dry storage and the Marina has a lot of folks with small sized sailboats on trailors just past the parking lot.

For maintenance work, I think they told me the marina website indicates they will lift your boat out of the water/put it back in plus put it on blocks for a week for around $200.

Don't know if i told you but my name came up for a wet slip. I cancelled it and will stay at James Creek Marina for at least another year. I like the option of using their outside dock in case my motor konks out.

Good luck with cleaning efforts. Larry

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5881 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2005 : 13:27:33

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Considering that a PO replaced all of this about 3 years ago, I would just as soon keep it healthy for as long as possible.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> I think most swing keel owners would agree that, if the boat is kept in salt water, the keel cable should be replaced about every three years, regardless of whether you keep it up or down. The swinger is a fine boat, but its Achilles heel is the keel cable. There's no way you can tell how quickly the cable is deteriorating, and, if it breaks, and the keel drops, it could sink the boat. Don't try to make it last. The best thing to do is to replace it regularly, and consider it the cost of having the convenience of a retractable keel. I've never replaced one, but it sounds like it's not as big a deal as you might think, after you've done it once.

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1889 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2005 : 15:59:15

I keep my 1979 C-25 swing keel in salt water full time. When I haul out every two years or for a bottom job, I replace the keel cable, cable attachment bolt in the keel, zincs, hose clamps on the cable 'radiator hose', and all four pivot support bolts. At the same time, I inspect the hose, turning ball, winch, and keel pivot hardware, replacing anything that looks the least bit suspect. So far, so good.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2005 : 16:20:20

I did not read all the responses so you might get some duplicate answers here but my two cents follows.

1. You will always have differeing opinions and the swing keel thing. If you don't have depth issues, keeping it down in freshwater should not be a problem. Perform normal maintenance and inspections and you should be okay. Inspect for meat hooks on the line and check the fitting/attachments every time the boat is out of the water.

2. I don't know if its environmentally safe, but then again those products don't work half of the time. Try checking out starbrites non-skid cleaner.

3. Its called a kicker plate, and is used to mount a small outboard (in most instances, what we use normally is considered small) for use with a dinghy.

dw

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2005 : 16:28:51

By the way, yet another boat named solitude...in a way it touches on Ironic...

Edited by - on

GregGrimes
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
11 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2005 : 17:11:08

#1 - Don't have a clue. I'm a 'fin guy myself.

#2 - How about a gas pressure-washer with just water? I bought a 2200psi Troy Built at Lowes for ~ $250.00. Works great, but a little noisy. I try to plan the cleanings to avoid disturbing the marina neighbors.

#3 - Before everyone else chimed-in, I was going to guess a mount for the stern-light (didn't see one).

Greg

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2005 : 17:59:35

Greg, I actually mount my sternlight from a kicker board

Edited by - on

Steve Siefken
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
81 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2005 : 22:04:00

Leon,

Where exactly do you have your zinc's mounted? I am currently moored in fresh water, but plan to move to salt water moorage this spring. I don't suppose you have any pictures?

Thanks,

Edited by - on

RickStevens
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
62 Posts

Response Posted - 01/03/2006 : 12:55:05

Thanks, all.

The combination of Star Brite products, a power washer and lots of elbow grease are probably the ticket. The power washer thing may have to wait until I have taken "no name" out of the water for cleaning and painting, but that's probably the best time to complete the job anyway.

Larry - James Creek Marina sounds like a good deal. My current plan is to get used to NOT running aground on the Potomac (meaning, get more time learning to drive the boat) then next season to take her down river to the bay and find a slip at Chesapeake Beach or North Beach. It will mean a much longer drive to go on the water, but I'm also looking for deep water time. So far, my wife is still saying we should sell the house, get a 38-footer, and do the ol' circumnavigation thing - which is great

- but I'm trying to convince her that maybe a wee bit of experience would be a good idea first. I suppose I should just shut the heck up and start buying....

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 01/03/2006 : 14:53:43

#1 I would have chosen down for mine if i had a choice, it had much less play in it when down. It is the rare swinger that does not clunk when up with typical water motions, especially when you are on the boat.
#2 softscrub with bleach and bathroom bowl cleaner
#3 yep dingy motor mount, your boat used to have an offspring.
#4 Your Honda is way too heavy for the mount it is on, you need a 4 spring from catalinadirect.com, I would not wait long!

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 01/03/2006 15:00:36

RickStevens
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
62 Posts

Response Posted - 01/03/2006 : 18:01:56

Frank - You nailed it on the mount. Not only is the mount itself too wussy, but the wooden (not plastic) board is in need of replacement. This, I found out when I accelerated past a Flying Scot filled with students and a 12-year-old instructor and the outboard bucked. Sweet.

A new mount is actually about the first major project for this winter/spring, after batteries and a good charger. The four-spring mount photos that Larry has been posting on his site have been very instructional.

(BTW - The instructor in the Flying Scot wasn't really twelve. It's just that these days, pretty much anybody under 30 looks that way....

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3408 Posts

Response Posted - 01/03/2006 : 19:10:08

Rick,

The mounting of the 4 spring bracket was not that hard. I was concerned that doing it myself without help, I would wind up having it take the deep dive off the transom while I moved into the quarter berth to attend to the washers and nuts. I did a line onto the bracket attached to the stern rail just in case of that eventuality but what I found at least during my installation was that the bolts when pushed thru the transom holes were a pretty tight fit. The bolts were not going anywhere. I had no problems with the self locking nuts. I used some monkey wrenches on the nuts and left the wrenches wedged between the inside of the transom and the hull, etc. The when outside and tightened the bolts. Only thing that was a little bit awkward/messy was using the 3M Marine Silicon Sealant which I placed on the Starboard to the transom, then between the bracket and the Starboard and also into the bolt holes. Once the bolts were tightened, the sealant oozed out just a bit sealing the perimeters of the bracket and the Starboard. It came out better than I expected but then had to get the extra sealant off my hands and....did a nice job on my jacket. But all that came off. Once it dried, I just rubbed it off.

The bracket was stiff to begin with but now works very well. With the two spring bracket, a block and tackle also works but the 4 spring bracket is made for the 100-115 lb motors.

I looked over some marinas south of the Wilson Bridge but...as you indicated, it then takes longer to get to the marina. One option I had considered was to go straight across from DC to the Chesapeake. It's about 45 minutes or so. BUT...then the drive home is over an hour since I live 1/2 hour west of DC in Northern VA. Also, that would mean a long drive both ways on weekends. My concern is that the further away the boat is, the less I will use it. So...it is a balance between better waters and close proximity to work and home. As it is right now, the boat is docked no more than 5-10 minutes from work and it is sort of on the way home...so no addl gas/driving. I even went down to the boat today to take a measurement on the shackle that attaches on the bow anchor roller hardware to the furling rig. then went over to West Marine and bought a longer shackle. No real wasted time. that's the benefit of having it close.

But if you go down the Potomac of to the Chesapeake...I'll envy you. Plenty of deep water in those regions.

Edited by - on

RickStevens
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
62 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2006 : 17:29:52

Thanks for the info on the mount. I was afraid it would be a much bigger "PITA". I forgot to mention that the old mount also recently lost a hold-down spring and I actually have to reach INTO the thing to lock the motor in position once I tilt it up. Since I'm right-handed, I use my left hand to do that. At least when I lose all my fingers I can still write.

I'm jealous of your proximity to the river. This is the main hesitation we have about moving. As it is, I live way the heck out in Fauquier County. While I work in DC, which is convenient, I can't leave work, go via Metro to my car, and drive in to the marina before it gets dark this time of year. It's funny, really, how much I don't like not being able to go over and do some of the little maintenance things in the evening.

I'm putting the finishing touches on a web page of my own and will do the before-and-after picture post. I just don't want to do that until after the de-naming/re-naming, since the old name is still prominent. Not that I'm superstitious or anything....

Edited by - RickStevens on 01/04/2006 17:32:28

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.