Association Forum

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

First born please…

Note: You must be registered in order to post a reply.
To register, click here. Registration is FREE!

Screensize:

UserName:

Password:

Format Mode:

Format:

Message:

* HTML is OFF
* Forum Code is ON

Smilies

[quote][i]Originally posted by Voyager[/i]
[br]As we’ve discussed regularly on different threads here at the Forum, marinas are becoming scarcer and scarcer, or should I say dearer and dearer. More costly, fewer, and more concentrated ownership of boat marinas are taking away opportunities for the regular person and only allowing wealthier people to take up boating.

I had previously mentioned that my long-time marina refused to put me on their summer shortlist because I did not winter there. I thought that I solved the problem when I found a private marina rental in a condo ass’n. Was working out fine til my winter storage got their plan approved to sell to developers. So back to square one on winter storage.

I decided to take the plunge and winter Passage at a nearby marina chain that owns several marinas around the area. The fees are 2X my usual budget.

The NDA section of their “Membership Agreement” does not allow me to mention the company by name, or disparage them either in speech, writing, or on social media. I did not name them and so far have not signed the agreement.

I got a chance to read through the agreement last night over a dram or two, and the terms put me right over the top. I’m not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, but I can read.

• First, they call it a [i]membership[/i], however, in their definition of Membership it states that you’re not a member of anything, you have no membership rights, can’t vote for anything, and they don’t even ask you. Members are not “Members”.

• Charges and fees can be assessed as the management sees fit above and beyond their schedule of fees. And if you fail to pay, they can charge your billing card that you are required to keep on file with them.

• They can unilaterally reassign your slip or location in their sole discretion, and you have 72 hours upon notification to move or they will move your boat at your risk and expense.

• Notices may be served to you by: verbal communication, written communication, email, or by a leaflet attached to your boat. Inability to receive the notification is no excuse. “My dog ate it”, “the wind blew it away”, or “it went to junk mail “ are no excuse.

• You cannot hold them responsible for negligence or damage to your boat for any reason, with the exception of willful negligence. But you have to  prove that it was willful somehow. You can’t take them to court to prove it.

• Photos - they have the right to photograph you, your boat, your guests, or anybody there on site and you must legally grant them the perpetual sole rights to use your photograph in any way they see fit, for advertising, marketing, or publication.

• You agree that you cannot compel them to have a trial by jury.

• My favorite: the terms and conditions of this agreement survive the dissolution of the membership. This means that even if you dissolve your relationship with them, you’re still on the hook. Wow!

I really believe that these lawyers they have contracted with to write the agreement win the prize for the most one-sided contract ever! Quite amazing really.

Of course, you can already hear in your imagination their rationale as to why the terms are so unfavorable to customers. “We’ve been burned by so many dad-burn customers that we’ve had to literally bulletproof the terms and conditions”

It’s brutal out there
[/quote]

Check here to include your profile signature.
Check here to subscribe to this topic.

T O P I C R E V I E W
Voyager	Posted - 10/02/2024 : 17:06:31 As we’ve discussed regularly on different threads here at the Forum, marinas are becoming scarcer and scarcer, or should I say dearer and dearer. More costly, fewer, and more concentrated ownership of boat marinas are taking away opportunities for the regular person and only allowing wealthier people to take up boating. I had previously mentioned that my long-time marina refused to put me on their summer shortlist because I did not winter there. I thought that I solved the problem when I found a private marina rental in a condo ass’n. Was working out fine til my winter storage got their plan approved to sell to developers. So back to square one on winter storage. I decided to take the plunge and winter Passage at a nearby marina chain that owns several marinas around the area. The fees are 2X my usual budget. The NDA section of their “Membership Agreement” does not allow me to mention the company by name, or disparage them either in speech, writing, or on social media. I did not name them and so far have not signed the agreement. I got a chance to read through the agreement last night over a dram or two, and the terms put me right over the top. I’m not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, but I can read. • First, they call it a membership, however, in their definition of Membership it states that you’re not a member of anything, you have no membership rights, can’t vote for anything, and they don’t even ask you. Members are not “Members”. • Charges and fees can be assessed as the management sees fit above and beyond their schedule of fees. And if you fail to pay, they can charge your billing card that you are required to keep on file with them. • They can unilaterally reassign your slip or location in their sole discretion, and you have 72 hours upon notification to move or they will move your boat at your risk and expense. • Notices may be served to you by: verbal communication, written communication, email, or by a leaflet attached to your boat. Inability to receive the notification is no excuse. “My dog ate it”, “the wind blew it away”, or “it went to junk mail “ are no excuse. • You cannot hold them responsible for negligence or damage to your boat for any reason, with the exception of willful negligence. But you have to prove that it was willful somehow. You can’t take them to court to prove it. • Photos - they have the right to photograph you, your boat, your guests, or anybody there on site and you must legally grant them the perpetual sole rights to use your photograph in any way they see fit, for advertising, marketing, or publication. • You agree that you cannot compel them to have a trial by jury. • My favorite: the terms and conditions of this agreement survive the dissolution of the membership. This means that even if you dissolve your relationship with them, you’re still on the hook. Wow! I really believe that these lawyers they have contracted with to write the agreement win the prize for the most one-sided contract ever! Quite amazing really. Of course, you can already hear in your imagination their rationale as to why the terms are so unfavorable to customers. “We’ve been burned by so many dad-burn customers that we’ve had to literally bulletproof the terms and conditions” It’s brutal out there
7 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
bigelowp	Posted - 10/11/2024 : 13:06:16 Bruce -- Fully agree that the independant marinas are becoming few and far between. In my area the few that remain are not in the most convenient locations. Winters I keep my boat at a large, albeit independent, marina. The winter contract has increasingly become "attorney friendly" (theirs). I am pretty friendly with the owners and over the years they have given me a break or two but in exchange I do not complain when they move my boat three or four times each winter causing me to play "where's Waldo" and then "where's Waldo's ladder". As Dave has mentioned I know people here in western CT who keep their boats either in the Mystic area or Saybrook. They claim that the cost is much less (everything is relative) and closer to better sailing as well as Block and Newport. Years ago I joined a yacht club specifically so I would not need to be worried about where the boat would be each season. Even with dues, etc., the cost per foot is less than keeping the boat at a marina and my club does offer winter land storage at discounted pricing for members. All that said, my annual "storage" costs (winter and summer) have doubled over the past 10 years.
Voyager	Posted - 10/05/2024 : 21:33:17 Dave — my good friend from Madison keeps his 26-foot catamaran at a private marina right next to Mystic Shipyards marina on the Groton side of the river, within sight of the Amtrak bridge, and he does that for that exact reason. He has access to Fishers Island Sound, Watch Hill, Block Island, Greenport LI (NY), and Newport/Narragansett Bay. For him it’s a 25 minute drive through a largely rural area (except New London). For me, it’s more than an hour each way with a traffic jam all hours of the day and night in New Haven, especially on summer weekends (why am I telling you, you already drive the I-95 on a regular basis). While I’m still working, it’s just a little too far. Perhaps once I retire, I’ll rethink the situation.
Stinkpotter	Posted - 10/05/2024 : 20:54:50 Three family-run independents here in Mystic are Masons Island Marina (I know the owner well), Gwenmor (by the railroad, behind what is now Safe Harbor Mystic,the East Coast mega-operator), and Fort Rachel Marina, just north of the railroad bridge and a very short walk to the village. I know less about Noank Village Boatyard, but it is also not part of a conglomeration. I've talked to people from NY, MA, and VT in these places, and have friends who lived in Greenwich and kept their boat here because it was a great jumping-off point for Block Island, Cuttyhunk, etc. Those sailors can save days by driving over here. And we're in Atlantic Ocean winds inside protected Fishers Island Sound--not the still summer air (that I know well) of western Long Island Sound. Just sayin'...
Voyager	Posted - 10/05/2024 : 06:46:50 Ray, I agree with you. This is happening in a lot of different businesses these days. As I mentioned, one choice I have is a family-run yard that’s in Westbrook CT, about 40 miles away. It’s been owned and run for decades by a guy named Harry who must be in his late 70s, and now his son, Harry Jr, is the day-to-day manager. Harry III showed up with donuts on the morning when I was there. It’s in a harbor that’s dominated by a corporate marina and I was quite surprised when I found it. I sailed up to Westbrook to meet up with a friend, and as I entered the harbor, I saw a few 80+ ft three-story motor yachts, big sailing rigs, and just a swarm of smaller power and sail on a vast set of docks of the corporate marina. There’s a restaurant and a fuel dock there too. I found Harry’s by checking on the Dockwa app. I found their phone number and just called them up and made a reservation. So I passed the mega marina, and kept on going about a quarter mile upriver. I thought that I was going to run out of water. When I turned the next bend, there was a small, friendly marina with quite a few remarkable boats and some great and interesting boaters. My buddy showed up soon afterwards and we went to a small, homey fish and beer shack nearby for dinner. It was a nice evening sitting under the veranda with a few of the boaters talking about their projects and enjoying a few cold ones, far from the din of the mega yard. Sadly, there are only a few Harry’s style marinas left out there, but we have to find them, and support them, or they’ll go the way of the dodo. Extinct.
redeye	Posted - 10/04/2024 : 05:03:33 I am so repelled by the current marina attitude toward their customers that I am ready to leave the marina community. I hope they fail. Hate talking to them or about them...... THEY ARE MAKING UNIMAGINABLE PROFITS, whining all the time. Soon it will be Time for the trustbusters to have a feeding frenzy....
Voyager	Posted - 10/03/2024 : 16:20:30 Steve, thanks for your valuable words of advice. At the moment, I’m sort of stuck between a rock and a hard place since the season is rapidly coming to a close. I have a few options, however they are mainly unsatisfactory. • I can stay where I am in the water over the winter and the marina provides bubblers to prevent the salt water from freezing. In the past few years the harbor hasn’t frozen, however during the Polar Vortex some years back, it has frozen over. • I can go to an urban crime-prone yard for a bargain price, but I’ll be worried all winter about someone breaking into the boat, even if I remove all valuables. • I can transit to a very nice yard at a great price that’s about 40 miles away. The fall transit shouldn’t be a huge problem with a good weather window, but it’s an inconvenient drive whenever I need to visit the boat, and the transit back in May will be chilly (50° water). • The good news about the marina in question is it’s nearby, it’s safe and secure, I can work on my boat if I need to and I’d qualify for free nights next summer. I like what you said about unenforceable contracts. Chances are I won’t be there long enough to have any problems, but I’d hate to be a regular, long-term customer.
Steve Milby	Posted - 10/03/2024 : 12:59:17 When a business creates a grossly unfair, one-sided "agreement" courts have the option to ignore or invalidate especially unfair provisions or even void the entire agreement. If you are caught in such an agreement, don't assume there's nothing you can do about it, since you signed it. See a lawyer for help.

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.