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Mainsail exploded

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Akenumber
Navigator

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USA
247 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/07/2017 : 16:29:16

On the way to Catalina about a week ago the winds piped up to well above 20knots. We were close hauled and forced to reef for the first time. The boat went from uncontrollable to much better. After a minute or so we heard a loud boom and the sail was in multiple pieces. My question is did I do something improper or was it just not used to stress at that point? Also I have a quote for about 1100 from CD. Is that a good choice for a 2 X 2 main?

Ken
San Diego
84 C25 SR/FK 4116
The KRAKEN

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 08/07/2017 : 17:07:50

Did the sailcloth tear, or did the stitches rip out along the seams? If it's the latter, and if the sail is worth it, it's easily repairable. If not, then others here can make good recommendations about sailmakers and prices.

If it's an old sail (and I'd guess that it is based on what you described), you probably didn't do anything wrong. Modern sailcloth is incredibly rugged. It doesn't rip just because you're sailing closehauled and are way overpowered. The thing that is most likely to cause sailcloth to rip is too many years in the sun. UV deteriorates sailcloth after many years.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Akenumber
Navigator

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USA
247 Posts

Response Posted - 08/07/2017 : 17:46:02

There are definitely shreds of sail cloth. Pretty sure it's orrrigional. I got a used one from minneys yacht surplus mailed to me and it needs small repairs, but got me home and I think even had a better shape. I plan to use it as a backup. Also have another slightly smaller genoa I am converting the luff for roller furler. After that experience I want backup sails.

Ken
San Diego
84 C25 SR/FK 4116
The KRAKEN

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 08/07/2017 : 18:31:50

Wow! That's a first for me. Maybe if it's a 40 year old sail, the sun and the elements may have taken the starch out of her. You could check on craigslist for a spare sail. I'd hate to drop $1100 bucks on a new one but you can't sail without one. We had a guy hereabouts convert a C-22 to a fishing boat with a dodger, that's always an option!

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Akenumber
Navigator

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USA
247 Posts

Response Posted - 08/07/2017 : 19:24:38

As soon as I retire I am moving up to something much larger. For now I am happy with my 25 and don't mind the 1100. Looking on In put about the CD sail or something else. Just pulled the old one out of the truck and it is very brittle. I am surprised it didn't tear much sooner.

Ken
San Diego
84 C25 SR/FK 4116
The KRAKEN

Akenumber
Navigator

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USA
247 Posts

Response Posted - 08/07/2017 : 19:26:13

Also, how important is it to lash the loose sail cloth to the boom when reefing? There wasn't much time for that.

Ken
San Diego
84 C25 SR/FK 4116
The KRAKEN

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 08/08/2017 : 04:05:30

It's not important to lash the loose part to the boom. It just to tidy it up but it is important to not tie it tight creating stress points. You can rip the sail it they are too tight.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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1511 Posts

Response Posted - 08/08/2017 : 04:06:45

I never lashed up the loose sail cloth. If the boat has lazy jacks it might be needed. Or, maybe on a boat that has mid-boom mainsheet.

Davy J

2005 Gemini 105Mc
PO 1987 C25 #5509 SR/SK
Tampa Bay

Akenumber
Navigator

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USA
247 Posts

Response Posted - 08/08/2017 : 05:44:05

Well thanks for the lashing info. Any ideas about CD sail or a different loft? I want to order soon.

Ken
San Diego
84 C25 SR/FK 4116
The KRAKEN

dasreboot
Admiral

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803 Posts

Response Posted - 08/08/2017 : 06:04:13

sell the pieces on ebay as scrap dacron if you have a complete corner, people want it for making dingy sails. i got $50 for a shredded macgregor mainsail. so you can make a few bucks back for your new sail.

Todd Lewis
Eowyn 87 TR/WK C25 #5656
ARWEN 84 TR/SK C25 #4031
www.mainsailsailingschool.com

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 08/08/2017 : 06:51:12

Here are links to 3 prior threads where we discussed sails and sailmakers. Various members suggest their lofts. In one thread "David Buoy" recommends Bacon Sails in Annapolis. I haven't bought a sail from Bacon yet, but have heard only good things about their sails, and I think the #2 racing jib on my Cal 25 was made by Bacon, and it's a nice racing sail. The prior owner bought that sail. Quantum makes absolutely beautiful sails, but they're typically very expensive.

You can get a defect in a sail from any loft. An employee makes a cut in the wrong place, covers it up and sends it out. That's not really the loft's fault, but they're responsible for it. Any good loft will make it right for you. I got one like that from North, and after it was corrected, it was a great sail that won many races for me.

http://catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=30537&whichpage=1&SearchTerms=sail%20loft

http://catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=28898&SearchTerms=sail+loft

http://catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=29387&SearchTerms=sail+loft

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Edited by - Steve Milby on 08/08/2017 06:51:41

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1736 Posts

Response Posted - 08/08/2017 : 08:49:45

I have only seen a sail "explode" on race boats with higher tech materials than Dacron and in extreme conditions (J105/40kts racing)so you got a great story if nothing else from that sail. Regarding costs, etc., many options but you should contact Ulmer Sails/Ventura. Gary is the supplier to Catalina Direct, and for years to Catalina Yachts. He knows our boats AND I found him to be very, very competitive (read, in line with National Sails/Rolly Tasker)in pricing but with real expertise and service. Wherever you go, enjoy the new sail -- it does make a difference!

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

Akenumber
Navigator

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USA
247 Posts

Response Posted - 08/08/2017 : 17:09:09

Thanks guys for all the info. I have had work done by Ulman sails san diego in the past and I think I will call them tomorrow and see what they have to say. Thanks for all the responses but I would like to stay local.

Ken
San Diego
84 C25 SR/FK 4116
The KRAKEN

dasreboot
Admiral

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803 Posts

Response Posted - 08/09/2017 : 04:16:55

sail warehouse has a oem mainsail for $695. They are made by rolly tasker. they are not the best, but were way better that my 30 year old sails were. I used them for three years and was happy with it. I traded the mainsail off to buy a loose footed full batten main of ebay. it was a better sail that the rolly tasker, but the difference was not the night and day difference between the old sails and the RT sail. I'm still using the RT headsail , going on 6 years now. the only issue is that this year i see some loos stitching on the UV cover that I'll have to fix this winter.

All and all it was a good buy. I had lost my original headsail when it had become unfurled in a storm. I had an old mg midget that a coworker wanted. MG sold and a call to sail warehouse and I had a set of new sails for about $1200.

Todd Lewis
Eowyn 87 TR/WK C25 #5656
ARWEN 84 TR/SK C25 #4031
www.mainsailsailingschool.com

DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 08/09/2017 : 04:55:02

quote:
Originally posted by dasreboot

sail warehouse has a oem mainsail for $695. They are made by rolly tasker. they are not the best, but were way better that my 30 year old sails were. I used them for three years and was happy with it. I traded the mainsail off to buy a loose footed full batten main of ebay. it was a better sail that the rolly tasker, but the difference was not the night and day difference between the old sails and the RT sail. I'm still using the RT headsail , going on 6 years now. the only issue is that this year i see some loos stitching on the UV cover that I'll have to fix this winter.

All and all it was a good buy. I had lost my original headsail when it had become unfurled in a storm. I had an old mg midget that a coworker wanted. MG sold and a call to sail warehouse and I had a set of new sails for about $1200.

This is what I did and haven't looked back. It was hard justifying spending $2200 for a new set of rags on a $1500 but mine were so stretched out. Ended up selling some of my inventory which paid for my new 135% from Sail warehouse and then got a boat show deal on a new 2+2 main from Bacon Sails(who also use overseas sails) for $500. I couldn't be happier with the difference in the boat and you know what, if I have to replace one or two of them before 10yrs (if I even still have the boat) then I think it was a sound purchase.

Though I usually do like replacing things with as good or better than standard as with car parts and stuff in the house, occasionally you have to draw the line. Boats suck up that money faster than you can make it.

My 2c

Captain Rob & Admiral Alyson
"David Buoy"-1985 C25 SK/SR #5053

dasreboot
Admiral

Members Avatar

803 Posts

Response Posted - 08/09/2017 : 06:48:07

quote:
Originally posted by DavidBuoy

, if I have to replace one or two of them before 10yrs (if I even still have the boat) then I think it was a sound purchase.

I think they will last as long as your old original sails. they'll just be in the same baggy condition at the end of 30 years!

Todd Lewis
Eowyn 87 TR/WK C25 #5656
ARWEN 84 TR/SK C25 #4031
www.mainsailsailingschool.com

dasreboot
Admiral

Members Avatar

803 Posts

Response Posted - 08/09/2017 : 10:04:06

quote:
Originally posted by Akenumber

Also I have a quote for about 1100 from CD. Is that a good choice for a 2 X 2 main?

You know i glossed right over this question. I have the full batten loose footed main from uhlman/catalina direct. It is a great sail. well built. I've been very happy with it.

Todd Lewis
Eowyn 87 TR/WK C25 #5656
ARWEN 84 TR/SK C25 #4031
www.mainsailsailingschool.com

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 08/09/2017 : 13:50:00

The reef ties between the tack and clew are optional, but if you do use them and don't have a loose-footed main, it's critical to keep them just tight enough to hold the bundle from sagging too far below the boom. The grommets are not reinforced as they are at the tack and clew, so heavy wind could rip them right out and rip the sail if they're taking some of the tension instead of just the reef tack and clew.

If you have a loose-footed main, you can pass the ties under the bundle and above the boom, and then snug them as much as you want.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Akenumber
Navigator

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USA
247 Posts

Response Posted - 08/09/2017 : 17:24:36

Just talked to Gary at ullman. He is recommending a full batten loose footed single reef. He also has in stock. Loose foot will be new to me. As well as full batten. He said full batten will help with luffing in light air and help protect the sail. And a loose foot will give adjustability. I guess I will probably go this way. Todd seems to like his. Pretty light air in san diego except in the afternoon for a few hours. If anyone has any thoughts to add let me know. Thanks.

Ken
San Diego
84 C25 SR/FK 4116
The KRAKEN

dasreboot
Admiral

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803 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2017 : 06:04:05

with the loose foot you can actually ease tension on the outhaul in light airs. with the boltrope it had too much friction to ease. He's correct about the luffing. the main hardly shakes. It really helps in light airs because the sail will maintain its shape. make sure you have a good outhaul, so you can adjust it when it blows. mine is 12:1. My wife can even adjust it. the only real cons are
1) it holds its shape, so its not as quick to depower by easing
2) harder to stack on the boom.(the battens kinda get in the way) I've heard that lazyjacks and full battens are a great combo, but i dont have them.

Todd Lewis
Eowyn 87 TR/WK C25 #5656
ARWEN 84 TR/SK C25 #4031
www.mainsailsailingschool.com

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1736 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2017 : 07:42:03

I have the loose foot two full, two partial baton from Ullman/Ventura. Have had it for ten seasons and it still looks like new and is crisp. My guess is Gary's price will be around that $1,100 mark.

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

Akenumber
Navigator

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USA
247 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2017 : 17:38:32

That's pretty colse. New sail is on its way. Thanks again for all the input.

Ken
San Diego
84 C25 SR/FK 4116
The KRAKEN

Akenumber
Navigator

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USA
247 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2017 : 19:43:41

Took the new sail for a test drive. Pretty happy so far. Can't wait to use it in the future.

Ken
San Diego
84 C25 SR/FK 4116
The KRAKEN

slim
Navigator

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USA
113 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2017 : 13:57:39

Great idea!! I also use them and well worth the cost!! Repaired my main last year after tearing out a batten pocket. Great job.

Slim

quote:
Originally posted by Akenumber

Thanks guys for all the info. I have had work done by Ulman sails san diego in the past and I think I will call them tomorrow and see what they have to say. Thanks for all the responses but I would like to stay local.

1978 - C25 - standard rig - Fixed keel #1040

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