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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

How to choose a new mainsail

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kiko
1st Mate

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USA
69 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/23/2014 : 22:14:29

So I'm only two years into the game. Refurbished this Cat 25 and it's time for a new main as the one I have is from the birthdate of the boat back in '79.

Plan is to do some offshore sailing off the coast of California this summer to Catalina Island. Currently sailing Lake Havasu Arizona.

I read that loose footed sails keep a better shape than the original sail. Also, what is pros and cons of going full batten or 2+2? Going to have EP make the sail, just wanted some pointers as I want some performance out of the sail but at a cost effective package. A happy medium I guess is what I'm wanting. Ideas?

Edited by - kiko on 12/23/2014 22:16:32

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 12/24/2014 : 17:41:00

I'd go with 1+3 vs 2+2 or full battens.

Partial battens are easier to hoist and give you a little better control over the depth of the draft. Full battens put less wear and tear on the forward end of the batten pocket and might have a better shape as the sail ages.

There isn't much reason to not go with a loose footed sail.

You'll also decide if you want one reef or two -- if you are using the boat offshore and has the tall rig I'd use two reefs. On a standard rig I'd probably use one deep reef.

If you aren't racing the boat you can get the roach cut so it just clears the backstay. That will make it easier to handle while getting the most sail area possible.

Your sail loft should be able to provide advice on these subjects. I don't know who EP is.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 12/24/2014 : 17:44:44

It is generally said that full battens will be more durable, because partial battens, in light air, often have a "hinge point," where the sailcloth is pulled and bent. However, having all full battens will increase the weight of the sail. If you’re sailing frequently in light air, a combination of full and short battens would usually be preferred, with 1 or 2 full length and 2 or 3 shorter battens.

I have sailed with full battens on big boats (over 40'), and I don't think the added weight is as significant a factor as it is on smaller boats. As sail area increases, the weight of the battens seems to decrease as a factor. Always consult your sailmaker for his opinion, and ask him why he makes any given recommendation, but I would recommend 2 full battens and 2 partial battens for a C25.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 12/24/2014 17:46:56

ct95949
Captain

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Aruba
300 Posts

Response Posted - 12/24/2014 : 18:39:01

I was very happy with the full batten loose footed main I bought from CD several years ago for my '79. It was the Ullman Ventura 'offshore' version and it held up really well in the heavy winds around Rio Vista. I ordered it with the 2nd reef point but only used it a few times. Used the 1st reef a lot and I liked having the option to go to the 2nd. The roach and batten ends did hang up on the backstay a little but I fixed that by stopping the boom a few inches lower on the mast.
I ordered the same main from CD for my '90 when they had them on sale in September.

Edited by - ct95949 on 12/24/2014 20:54:29

hewebb
Admiral

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USA
761 Posts

Response Posted - 12/25/2014 : 05:03:12

https://www.catalina-capri-25s.net/cgi-local/MBRimg.cgi?+2095+2681

I replaced mine earlier this year. It is a full batten, loose foot from Catalina Direct. It seems to be well made-I am pleased with it. Ordered it when they were on sale.

Edited by - on

pearson39b
1st Mate

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93 Posts

Response Posted - 12/25/2014 : 12:33:04

When I had a custom main built for my 39' boat, Quantum recommended only making the top two battans full length. Their reasoning was that any increase in performance by making the whole sail fully battened would be so negligable it would be more than offset by the increased weight. The sail was going to be built out of their heaviest weight dacron, so overall weight was already a big factor.

I've also heard that the upper area of the sail is better served by full battans because the air flow is generally stronger at the top of the sail than it is at the bottom, therefore any increase in efficiency in the shape up there translates into greater overall efficiency for the whole sail.

At any rate, the sail performed well for all the years I had the boat, and I never regretted following that advice..

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3369 Posts

Response Posted - 12/25/2014 : 22:23:44

I also have Quantum sails and was told to go with only top two as full battens.

Besides deciding on loose footed, full or partial battens, etc options, you should also find out what Dacron Mfr/material grade they normally furnish for cruising sails and if there are other Dacron optional material grades you should be considering. After all, you are primarily buying sail cloth and Dacron sailcloth is not sold as a one type Dacron. Dacron is primarily made by a few major sailcloth mfrs and each sailmaker primarily sells sails made out of one or more of the Dacron matl grades depending on factors: customer's sailing frequency/average wind conditions and/or competitive pricing.

There are past postings regarding buying sails - Check archives. For example, Challenge sailcloth is made in 4 different grades of Dacron. The less expensive grades are more prone to stretching in just a few years, while the more expensive grades are made with a high weave count, low stretch fibers and then the sailmaker can utilize a low stretch sail thread to match the properties of the Dacron Grade.

The weight of a sail can be deceiving in that some sails are made with more coatings applied to sort of make up for not having a high weave count Dacron. Not all sailcloth mfrs provide details of their Dacron grades on the web but yoyu can check out Challenge sailcloth because their data sheets are on the web (See Mack sails website for links.) A good source to learn some of the basics regarding Dacron sailcoth and the grades - Check out Mack Sails out of Florida. The Mack Sails website has a lot of good info to read even if buying sails from another sailmaker.

Edited by - on

Peregrine
Admiral

Members Avatar

830 Posts

Response Posted - 12/26/2014 : 10:21:55

quote:
Originally posted by kiko

So I'm only two years into the game. Refurbished this Cat 25 and it's time for a new main as the one I have is from the birthdate of the boat back in '79.

Plan is to do some offshore sailing off the coast of California this summer to Catalina Island. Currently sailing Lake Havasu Arizona.

I read that loose footed sails keep a better shape than the original sail. Also, what is pros and cons of going full batten or 2+2? Going to have EP make the sail, just wanted some pointers as I want some performance out of the sail but at a cost effective package. A happy medium I guess is what I'm wanting. Ideas?

I think location and conditions determine the sail decision. Not sure what the conditions are on Lake Havasu but I suspect light air and I just got back from San Diego where there were strong storms but the prevailing conditions are generally light.
I know there is a strong predilection for loose footed full battened mains but I would suggest partial battens and here’s why.
As Steve said there is a weight issue but I focus on sail shape. Full battens will make your sail look well shaped but in light air it will be difficult to get enough curve/shape into the sail thus losing power or I should say the inability to develop power.
I sail in Long Island Sound where we have plenty of wind in May, Sept., and October but June through August can be a challenge to find steady strong winds. So I use a footed (more on that in a minute) main with partial battens. I use stiff battens top and bottom and flexible tapered battens in the two middle, longer slots. Then when I ease the outhaul I can get the smooth rounded shaped needed to develop lift and create a slot with the jib to keep her moving forward and to weather.
As for the foot, I am not opposed to a loose foot but a good sailmaker will shape a “shelf” into the foot that will close up as you pull on the outhaul in good to strong winds using all the power available. A loose foot might make it easier to induce shape into the lower part of the sail in light air but combining it with full battens seems counterproductive.
In conclusion consider your conditions and if they skew towards light air consider how you are going to shape your engine, your main.
Sail Power by Wallace Ross can seem a bit daunting at first but is a great resource for any sailor, cruiser or racer.

Edited by - on

sdpinaz
Navigator

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USA
193 Posts

Response Posted - 12/27/2014 : 08:28:31

Frank,
Santa was super nice to me this year and I just got a new main sail for my boat. I have the old mainsail, which really isn't that old, still pretty good. it is a 2+2, one reef, standard main. you can borrow it with an option to buy it if you want. I am in California right now but am driving back to flagstaff after the new years. If you want to meet me at the north end of 95 and I-40 on my way back and I can pass off the sail, if you are interested. If you like it- Great! if you still want to buy a new one, no sweat either, I could just get the sail back from you after your new one arrives.....
Cheers,
Scott

Edited by - on

kiko
1st Mate

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USA
69 Posts

Response Posted - 12/27/2014 : 19:49:48

Hey Scott,
Glad Santa took care of you this year. What a fantastic offer, thanks a bunch!

Was kinda hoping to go for a new one from Elliot Pattinson Sails with a double reef. But intrigued, how old is the sail?

Thanks again for the kind offer, very appreciative.

Edited by - on

kiko
1st Mate

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USA
69 Posts

Response Posted - 12/27/2014 : 19:50:40

To everyone that chimed in, thanks a ton for the advice, taking all comments into considerattion and doing more research. Thanks to all again!

Edited by - on

sdpinaz
Navigator

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USA
193 Posts

Response Posted - 12/27/2014 : 20:35:32

The sail is not too old, It is definitely not the original sail- it is made by North Sails, it still has some crispness left in it, I think It was used only on lake pleasant- and probably only in light air. The offer still stands: If you want to pick it up on my way by, you can use the sail until you get your new EP sail just so you have something to sail with this winter.
Cheers,
Scott

Edited by - on

kiko
1st Mate

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USA
69 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2014 : 16:36:50

Hey Scott,

Emailed you, may take you up on offer after all, especially if it can save me some green.

Thanks!

Edited by - on

sdpinaz
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
193 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2015 : 18:02:35

Ok Everyone,
I met Kiko this morning and Passed off the mainsail to him. We did not agree on a price yet and we would both like to get some feedback from the forum on the suggested price for the sail. It is made by North Sails. It is about ten years old, not new by any means, but still in good shape for cruising. it is a 2+2 double reef, loose foot, standard rig main. The stitching is all really good and the fabric is dirty, but good- not crisp anymore, but not stretched. Kiko is going to spend some time sailing with it to decide if he wants to keep it or not. Kiko, if you do decide to keep it, will you add to this thread your own description of the sail so others can chime in on a suggested price? Thanks all,
Cheers,
Scott

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9014 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2015 : 18:31:28

I suspect, just suspect, he might want to know why you've replaced it. (Dirty seems like a dubious reason.)

Edited by - on

sdpinaz
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
193 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2015 : 19:46:12

yea, we talked about the fact that I wanted a full batten main and Ullman sails were having their sale this fall so I ordered one.....

Edited by - on

Ape-X
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
662 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2015 : 05:19:27

check bacon sails for used retail prices. Otherwise a price you BOTH feel comfortable with is a good sail sale sale

Edited by - on

DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2015 : 20:16:40

quote:
Originally posted by Ape-X

check bacon sails for used retail prices. Otherwise a price you BOTH feel comfortable with is a good sail sale sale

I've been actually thinking about having bacon make a sail for my boat. Anyone had one made from them?

Edited by - on

shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2015 : 04:57:11

When you finally do decide to buy a new sail... I strongly recommend you have a conversation about your sailing conditions, primary usage, and wants with with your sail maker not necessarily a forum. Forum members will put their usage thoughts on to you, or preferences, where the sailmaker will try to match the best product for your use from their product line. Again its in their best interest to make sure to match you up with the right product, because sailing circles are small, and reputation is everything.

Edited by - on

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1736 Posts

Response Posted - 01/11/2015 : 09:28:10

IMHO -- you can not go wrong with two full battens top, two partial lower -- BUT I would talk to other C25/C22 owners sailing in your area for their input.

Edited by - on

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