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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Rudder crack on tiller notch

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Bikeandsail
Deckhand

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5 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/01/2015 : 12:24:32

Hello wise skippers!

Maggie (1978) has a crack at the top of her rudder, in the notch where the aft end of the tiller rests when the tiller is at the downward angle. The crack runs down and aft from the notch. This was a small crack that I neglected dealing with - shame on me - that has now grown after some fun heavy days on Puget Sound. There is now a small observable flex of the top section of the rudder when the tiller is pulled hard.

Inside the crack I see plywood, so it appears to me that this rudder is not of the newer foam cored variety. My question is the same as many who have come before me - repair or replace? I don't have a picture right now but I could get one.

Thanks, as always for any help!

1978 C-2S "S/V Maggie" Hull #793 SR/FK/trad. Interior
Lake Union, Seattle

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2015 : 20:11:07

Lots of prior posts on this topic. Have you tried doing a search?

1989 C25 TR/WK, #5822
1973 McVay Minuet 19
1975 Jester 12
1981 C25 SR/SK, #2428
1981 C22 SR/SK,
Tanzer 16
Sunfish

"There is nothing, absolutely nothing half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats." Kenneth Grahame

Bikeandsail
Deckhand

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5 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2015 : 20:36:40

You know, I did, but checking the "include archived posts" box just now helped an awful lot.

Moderator feel free to take this topic down.

1978 C-2S "S/V Maggie" Hull #793 SR/FK/trad. Interior
Lake Union, Seattle

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2015 : 21:25:05

I replaced. That same plywood core is supporting the gudgeons, where the lower one takes the greatest lateral stress, particularly when the boat is heeled and pitching through some chop while you're pulling against some weather helm.

I have been on another boat when the rudder failed under those conditions, and you don't want to go through it. (Sudden tack, backwinded genny, a hard spin into a jibe, a scramble to get the genny down, general confusion... !!) So when I bought my then 15-yr-old C-25 with a crack between the two shells on the rudder, I replaced it with the foam-cored fiberglass balanced rudder. It was like switching from manual to POWER STEERING!

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 04/01/2015 21:26:31

jduck00
Captain

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USA
313 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2015 : 06:31:25

Not trying to hijack the thread, but I'm in the same spot. My rudder has a long crack down the back seam and its a plywood core. Its next on the upgrade list. I would have already done it but the bow damage has set the boat budget back some. Anyone use the blue water rudder with a swing keel or are they mainly for the fixed keel boats? My stock rudder already is about 3" lower in the water than the keel when its up. I cranked the keel down a few turns just so it will hit first while I'm motoring out. Just curious if there is a performance benefit that offsets the extra draft.

Jeremy Duck
The Lucky Duck
1980 SKSR Hull # 1850

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 04/03/2015 : 13:43:17

I think they just used the same rudder on all keels. The bluewater, I think, is HMW polyester and flexing is common under load with a few reports of breaking. Pearl's rudder was modified by a previous owner to a kick up. I think a kick up foam cored would be best.

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 04/04/2015 : 08:53:30

My understanding is that the blue water rudder is just longer to keep more of the rudder in the water when heeling or going over large waves.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 04/04/2015 : 16:44:43

As I understand it (and I might be out of date), CD's "blue water" rudder is one of several made by Ruddercraft for the C-25. Another is a kick-up rudder that's a good option for wing or swing keels. All are solid HDPE (high-density polyethylene--like Starboard). I have heard of some instances of HDPE rudders snapping under stress, since its tolerance to bending is very low. Hopefully, the "blue water" version is thick enough to prevent that. I recall, however, that it is deeper than the original equipment rudders--thus much deeper than the wing or raised swing keel.

The other option that I believe CD still offers is a fiberglass-shelled, foam cored, balanced-design rudder that became the original equipment around 1988. It might be more tolerant of lateral bending forces--I haven't heard of one breaking, including all of the OEM units from '88-'91 (not to say it hasn't happened). That's the one I bought from them, and I was very happy with it. But my C-25 was a fin keel model.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 04/04/2015 16:49:12

skeyknee
Deckhand

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USA
2 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2015 : 20:43:27

Hi,

I'm newer to sailing and really new to this 78 C-25 I trailered home from Oregon. I've been putting in some time on projects a little here and there. It didn't have an engine or a serviceable mount and I have just gotten those elements completed.
Starting to look at the interior set up a bit. The rear lazarette(i think that's the name) anyway that thing is huge. I could stack my 2 kids in there and 2 of their friends. Have NO idea how to organize it. It has some shelf supports in there but??
Do you just chuck stuff in and yard sale it out to get to the bottom?

I would really LOVE to see another C-25. See how things are set up. What stores well where? How are you running your gas line? I've got an electric start?

Notice you have a fixed keel. Mine swings.

I am going to put my phone number here on the chance you would be willing to spend just a few minutes with a new Puget Sound C-25er. 530-2152 My area code is the one to the north of Seattle. Edmonds.

Thanks!

Look'in for fun in all the right places!

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4275 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2015 : 20:59:43

quote:
Originally posted by skeyknee

Hi,

I'm newer to sailing and really new to this 78 C-25 I trailered home from Oregon. I've been putting in some time on projects a little here and there. It didn't have an engine or a serviceable mount and I have just gotten those elements completed.
Starting to look at the interior set up a bit. The rear lazarette(i think that's the name) anyway that thing is huge. I could stack my 2 kids in there and 2 of their friends. Have NO idea how to organize it. It has some shelf supports in there but??
Do you just chuck stuff in and yard sale it out to get to the bottom?

I would really LOVE to see another C-25. See how things are set up. What stores well where? How are you running your gas line? I've got an electric start?

Notice you have a fixed keel. Mine swings.

I am going to put my phone number here on the chance you would be willing to spend just a few minutes with a new Puget Sound C-25er. My area code is the one to the north of Seattle. Edmonds.

Thanks!

I'd recommend you remove your phone number immediately and instead ask people to send you a private email using the email address in your profile if they want to talk with you. Or respond here on the forum, maybe with some pictures.

As for your question, I keep life jackets and extra lines hanging in what we usually refer to as the "dumpster". I'm sure most people do what works for them so you may get a dozen different response but all will have valuable information.

BTW.. Welcome! Glad to have you here!

Association Member

GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

Edited by - GaryB on 04/09/2015 16:31:13

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2015 : 07:22:57

Likewise, Gary, in case he follows your advice, I'll recommend you edit his phone number out of the quote in your post.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4275 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2015 : 16:31:45

Done on my end anyway!

Association Member

GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.