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Centre board up-haul trouble... again!!

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zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1297 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/17/2011 : 17:56:41

For the second time our, factory supplied, center board up-haul cable snapped with a loud clang while launching the boat for our month-long stay in Mission Bay, San Diego.

With the center board stuck between the trailer's cross bars it was impossible to float the boat and had no choice but to winch the boat back on the trailer and tow it up the ramp again. We felt deflated and embarrassed in front of a lunch crowd at the marina

Now what!! If we could find a marina repair facility it probably would take several days on the dry plus a costly lift and repair job. Whereas if it somehow could be floated we could find a diver who would be able to attach a new up-haul cable once we have the parts

Nothing wagered, nothing gained... we finally decided to innovate and try to block the space between the last two cross bars of the trailer and see if it would allow to float the boat free.

Off to Home Depot... we bought a 4x8 sheet of plywood, had it cut in two 2x8 foot sections and with a saw we cut in two slots to secure to front edge. The back part we roped down to hold the sheets in place while submerged.

Down the ramp again and this time the center-board slipped past the cross bars and although it scraped the bottom of the ramp it allowed the boat to move to deeper water.

We are presently in our slip with a lame center board. A diver working in the marina came by yesterday and offered to do the required underwater work once we have the parts. Next will be to locate a new and stronger SS up-haul cable with proper fittings. Hope fully the center board is not damaged other than some surface scratching... If you have any suggestions as to the best procedure or what you would do... any information would be welcome.

Would anybody know the length of the required new cable and what fasteners should be used ... thank you in advance

Henk & Johanna
"Floating", a few off your "barnacles".
"Someday Lady" '95 C250WB #151 ('03 - 2016)
"Sea ya" 30ft Bayliner (04-2018 - 09-2018)
"Mariah" '96 C250WB #191 (05-2019 - 15-05-2023)
"Lady J" '00 C250WK #499 (05-2021 - 09-2022)

Edited by - on

willy
Captain

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USA
422 Posts

Response Posted - 03/17/2011 : 19:25:21

Henk,
If you call Catalina they should send you a cable refit kit that uses a different block at the top and an extremely low stretch piece of line to replace the cable. My cable also snapped, probably because it continually got pinched in the board raising process. For this reason, I am thinking larger cable will actually make the problem worse. The line replacement has broken once in the 7? years since I switched and it was easily fixed by attaching a new one at the top end, running the line down the tube, and snorkeling down to tie it to the rudder blade.
Willy

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 03/17/2011 : 21:07:57

Henk, first: Good solution! Those boards certainly seemed to fit the job.

Our 2005 model C250WB has a Vectran Line, not wire. I believe that Catalina has recommended we all switch to Vectran.

Not sure how warm it is in Mission Bay for diving. But getting the vectran line over the rolling ball and up/down the tube would be a trick.

I would suggest that you feed the line over a coat hanger (one of my fav tools) so that you can reach down from the aft berth and get the line under the boat. That would reduce the diving job to detaching the steel cable from the fitting on the keel and tying the vectran in it's place.

FWIW, not that you'll implement this while out on the road. I modified our keel haul so that it's easy to pull up. Basically replaced the old blocks with new 3 sheave items. Effectively improving the haul ratio.

Paul

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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2980 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2011 : 05:08:13

The way I did it was to sling the center board with a line fully around the boat. Doing so requires requires floating the aft enough to get the line between the boat and the bunk boars and leaving plenty of loop beneath. Pull back up the ramp, route the loop beneath the center board and then back down again and when aft floats again, tighten the sling to hold the center board up.

Doing it that way will prevent scraping the board down the ramp, though the ramp probably has enough growth on it to prevent much damage.

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dubedoo
1st Mate

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68 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2011 : 08:22:53

Hi Henk,

The "Catalina Direct" replacement kit lists an 11 foot piece of 5mm vectran.......as well as the other parts that a person might need. I think that I've now decided to just order the vectran line (for a spare) rather than the whole kit and have been going to measure/confirm the length of the old 3mm line that I took off a few years ago....but haven't gotten around to it yet. Will get down to the boat later this a.m., measure and let you know. Think that you would be safe with the 11 foot. I'm a definite vectran fan......vs cable for this application. West Marine carries vectran.....at least it is listed in their catalog.

Steve C250 WB #702

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dubedoo
1st Mate

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68 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2011 : 13:35:25

Hi Henk,

Sorry, couldn't locate the old 3mm vectran line to measure..but would feel comfortable with the 11 ft. listed by "Catalina Direct" in it's C250 WB centerboard lifting retrofit/replacement kit. I had checked with Catalina Woodland Hills last month re. getting a spare CB lifting kit. They referred me to Largo. Largo wasn't able to locate and subsequently I found it at Catalina Direct.

After you load your boat on the trailer do you loosen the CB lifting line so that for travel the CB is lowered and rests on the bunk and then before next unloading the boat tighten the line/raise the CB? This is one of the reminders that I have on my launch/load reminder list.

Steve C250 WB #702

Edited by - on

mmac
Navigator

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USA
168 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2011 : 07:02:29

Henke,
Nice solution to the problem. The cheaper the better. You shouldn't have trouble finding a diver. There are always some bottom cleaners on our docks who are willing to pick up a few extra bucks on the side.
Welcome back to Mission Bay. Where are you guys?

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zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1297 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2011 : 19:17:17

Hi guys... thanks for your comments, suggestions and help. Believe me it is so discouraging that after all the work of setting up and getting the boat ready to launch, the last thing you want is the cable snapping!!

From previous experiences we made sure that the up-haul cable was all the way up and secured.

When we launched, a light wind from abeam drifted the boat's stern sideways as far as the center board would allow between the cross-bars of the trailer while the bow was kept in place by the trailer bunks. First thing I did was to jump waistdeep in the cold water to see if a line could be rigged below the center board from the stern. This was, without diving below the surface in ice cold water, impossible to accomplish.

Trying to put a port/starboard line under the boat from bow to stern seemed equally difficult since one would need to feed it past the bunks and between the up-right trailer's center board guides while trying to drop the line below the leading edge of the center board. (has anyone been successful doing this??)

The only option we could come up with was the ply-wood route and hope the ramp would be deep enough. However, it was not and we knocked and scraped the center board... a diver should be able to tell us what the damage is. Knowing that in Mission Bay bottom divers clean boat bottoms for lots of boats once a month at $1.25 per foot we felt, as Mike suggests, our best bet since they are plentiful and always willing to earn an extra buck.

The next thing we did was to phone Ken and e-mailed Warren Pandy at Catalina in Florida and asked for the best and hopefully permanent cable fix solution.

1) Use, as we had, an 1/8 inch SS airplane cable (this will be able to ground all up-haul parts is salt water) or
2) Use a Vectran cable with new fittings... (don't worry about grounding) Ken at Catalina mentioned that Vectran does not like to be bent
3) Increase the size of cable and fittings
4) Find some other solution...

We expect an answer on Monday and will keep you informed...

ps Paul: Could you explain what you did to solve your problem please?

Edited by - on

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1297 Posts

Response Posted - 03/20/2011 : 19:33:41

In my frustration I omitted to read Arlyn's reply more carefully and should have noted the procedure he, from experience, outlined... Hope fully there won't be a next time cable breaking experience while launching the boat.

Noted yesterday while pulling up the broken cable from the tube that it let go at a similar if not the same place than the previous cable. Wonder what would be the cause of that... pinched, twisted, overloaded, weak point in the cable or at the cable fasteners??

Any suggestions out there??

BTW Steve, thanks for the reminder:, when the boat is loaded on the trailer we do release the tension on the up-haul cable and tighten the same before launching

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528
Navigator

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181 Posts

Response Posted - 03/21/2011 : 07:17:36

Henk, I have a 2001. The stainless cable has always been an issue. Catalina sent me a retro kit in 2004 with Vectran. I have had 0 problems to this point. It's the way to go. If you can put the boat back on the trailer and jack up the bow, there should be enough room to do it yourself. That was my approach with replacing the centerboard pivot shims also.

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zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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1297 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2011 : 21:14:53

Made a little progress this week to replace the up-haul center board cable on our in the water '95 C250 WB

1) Contacted Warren and Kent at Catalina in Florida (where our boats presently are made) and Kent in California as to the best method, fasteners, installation and type cable and materials... Warren and/or Kent; answer to be forthcoming shortly

2) Went to West Marine in San Diego and with information provided, thank you people, obtained a 12 ft long 6 m/m Vectran cacble (slightly larger than the 3/16" SS cable) with a 1/4' d lock shackle spliced to the Vectran cable... David Eberhard, West Marine Rigging Specialist, suggests that this will be stronger and more durable than the traditional SS cable. The Vectran cable can be pulled-up from the trunk with a fish wire and secured with a bowline knot to the 6 to 1 up-haul block. The width of roller guide located in the trunk should and block should be fine.

3) Waiting for a diver to cut, snip or otherwise remove the broken ss from the center board eye bolt and attach & secure the self locking shackle.

4) If this all works as intended I will carry a spare cable and parts

cable roller guide in the center board trunk as viewed through the tube from top to bottom

Spliced Vectran up-haul cable with shackle attached

David Eberhard, San Diego, West Marine Rigging Specialist, splicing the Vectran cable

Edited by - on

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1297 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2011 : 12:09:13

Received the following center board lifting tackle blueprint from:

Kent Nelson
Engineering Department
Catalina Yachts
21200 Victory Blvd.
Woodland Hills, CA 91367
(818) 884-7700 ext. 237
(818) 884-3810 Fax
kent@catalinayachts.com
www.catalinayachts.com

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 04/03/2011 : 16:35:08

I personally disagree with the way Catalina rigs the center board uphaul tackle. If rigged per the drawing, the angular load of the tailing line on the triple block, induces twist knots to the block and tackle rigging. Over time, the block and tackle will have many of them that will foul the block and tackle causing a high degree resistance to the free operation of the block and tackle.

A better rigging is to use or remove (can't recall which) the twist shackle from the bottom to position the triple block for a fair entry of the tailing line.

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zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1297 Posts

Response Posted - 04/03/2011 : 19:14:45

Our 1995 WB was (as per blueprint) definitely not factory equipped with a trunk block installed in the roof of the trunk directly above the center board up-haul eye & cable.

Instead, our up-haul cable is routed from the center board up-haul eye directly over the brass turning ball installed in the top of the trunk. From there is goes via the rubber tube to a large single block for cable (to be replaced for the new Vectran line) to the underside of the cockpit and finally attached to the 6-1 block and tackle with the tailing line led via a block out to the cockpit. Substantial forces must be applied on the cable (Vectran) due to the extreme angle from the center board up-haul eye to the brass turning ball when it (center board) is almost in "up" position.

Questions for Kent and Warren at Catalina California and Florida

We assume that this is typical for all C250 WB manufactured from 1994 to 19...??

Before attempting to install, (new for our '95 boat), the trunk block as per blueprint, we would like to confirm that our 1995 C250 WB

1) Has indeed a steel plate installed in the fiberglass laminate for tapping 1/4 bolts into

2) When the block is installed directly above the up-haul, shown as per drawing, will there be enough room in the trunk when the boat is on the trailer. No pinching or the center board riding on the block in the trunk

3) The boat definitely needs to be on the dry before the new trunk block can be tapped into the steel plate and installed. Is there enough room in the width if the trunk for doing the tap and installation with normal tools

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bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 04/04/2011 : 06:41:22

Henk, If you notice the date of the blueprint is 8 years after our 1995 boats were built. I still have the stainless steel cable [had the same one for 10 years now]. One thing I'll do this spring is lubricate everything with WD40 and making sure the brass turning ball turns and gets sprayed.. The bottom of Brandy has never been painted thus the brass turning ball is not gooked up with paint. JMTCW

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britinusa
Web Editor

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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 04/04/2011 : 08:52:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by zeil
 

Received the following center board lifting tackle blueprint from:

Kent Nelson
Engineering Department
Catalina Yachts
21200 Victory Blvd.
Woodland Hills, CA 91367
(818) 884-7700 ext. 237
(818) 884-3810 Fax
kent@catalinayachts.com
www.catalinayachts.com

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
This diagram shows exactly why I made my mod to the uphaul system.

If you look at the pic, the line from the lower blocks [A] up to the upper block [b] that line has no advantage at all, in fact IMHO it only adds to the friction of the haul system.

My Mod was basically to move the moving block to the lower position, so that now the pull on the line is adding to the pull on the lower block.

Gotta do a pic of this.

Paul

Edited by - on

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1297 Posts

Response Posted - 04/04/2011 : 10:00:25

Paul... I love to see a photograph(s) of your mod to clarify how you actually accomplished less friction during up-haul

1) Since your boat is newer is it equipped with a trunk block installed making your up-haul much lighter?

2) a: Would you per change know the width of your center board and
b: The measurement of the center board trunk as measured inside the cabin (from sole to underside of the cabin table.

Earlier threads on this forum have led me to believe that cables got pinched due to lack of space between center board and trunk in up position.

Installing a retrofit up-haul block, in older models, say from 1994 to 2003 (the date of the blueprint) would create huge problems

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britinusa
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Response Posted - 04/04/2011 : 10:37:16

Henk, I can measure the board / trunk later today.

Yes, our model (2005) does have the block in the middle of the trunk. It allows the keel to be fully retracted.

I would assume on older models that the point where the line attaches to the keel would be much lower down the keel in order to be able to fully retract the keel.

Paul

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zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1297 Posts

Response Posted - 04/04/2011 : 11:48:31

Thanks Paul...

I needed to correct my previous posting since it was totally incorrect... we do have a trunk block as well

my apologies

The diver came and attached the new Vectran cable to the center board, pulled it through the trunks block and attached it to a fish wire so it could pulled up through the rubber tube and attached with a bowline knot to the 6-1 up-haul.

Pulled the center board up a few times while the diver watched below, black marked the "up", position on the up-haul line and everything works fine even though it remains a tough pull to get her up.

The old cable snapped, let go, failed in the exact location of the previous cable.

No need to take measurements at this time... thanks Wayne for the offer

Edited by - zeil on 04/04/2011 15:15:15

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 04/04/2011 : 12:24:39

Henk, If your diver has any trouble I can get some [not all] of those measurements. "Brandy" my 95 S/N 89 is in my yard right now, but its raining hard. We are pulling her out onto the driveway later this week, but some of the easier measurements I can help you with if needed.

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