Association Forum - New boat or better skills ?

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

New boat or better skills ?

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

jfilion
Deckhand

Member Avatar

6 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/17/2016 : 17:53:36

Hello friends,

I currently sail a Catalina 25 on the Great Lakes. Specifically Lake Ontario.

I'd like to begin to explore the Carribean. Specifically, sailing from Florida to the Bahamas.

I've lived aboard my Catalina 25 for 3 days at a stretch and find that with its outboard motor it does not perform well in waves larger than 1 meter.

Should I be looking at upgrading my ship since I am upgrading the waters I plan to sail on ? Or is this a question of low skill level ?

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 09/17/2016 : 19:50:20

There was a video on this site of a C25 that sailed round trip to the Bahamas. You would need to wait for a weather window to ensure a safe crossing. You can't cruise the Caribbean chain on a schedule, unless you've got a blue water boat and blue water skills.
Have you already acquired a cruising guide?

1989 C25 TR/WK, #5822
1973 McVay Minuet 19
1975 Jester 12
1981 C25 SR/SK, #2428
1981 C22 SR/SK,
Tanzer 16
Sunfish

"There is nothing, absolutely nothing half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats." Kenneth Grahame

Edited by - OJ on 09/17/2016 20:00:58

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2016 : 05:34:11

This is a judgment call for certain. Everybody has to make their own decisions but here's what we know:
1. The C25 is designed as a coastal cruiser, not a blue water boat. It cannot be sealed up.
----- It has a slider and a pop-top, a fender locker (aka dumpster) and crib boards closing the companionway that cannot be secured shut.
----- If green water fills the boat there is no positive floatations built in, so the boat will sink.

2. There's the East Coast of Florida and then the Bahamas. In between is the Gulf Stream. It's a different world.
----- If you've never encountered ocean currents, you may be in for a navigational surprise. It takes you and your boat along with it, well off course.
----- It creates its own weather. Those scenic sunrises off Miami South Beach is testimony to that. Those awesome cumulonimbus-nimbus clouds often arise from the Stream.

3. Weather - Cold fronts that appear in the fall can blow at 20-30kts sometimes. They're fearsome in these parts.
----- Combine a strong wind blowing against an opposing current and this will generate short, steep, breaking waves. Small boats with outboard engines don't do well in these conditions. Lots of hobby horsing and the engine comes up out of the water.
----- Thunderstorms and strong gusty winds are a regular daily occurrence in these parts.

4. Tricky navigation - the Bahamas are shoals surrounded by shoals and reefs.
----- Check your chartplotter and make sure to have backup paper charts and a handheld GPS.
----- Have you ever taken the US or Canadian Power Squadrons' Seamanship, Piloting and Advanced Piloting courses? These are good insurance.

I'm not saying I wouldn't do it ever, but all things considered, I'd do a ton of research and "ask the locals" before I did.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Edited by - Voyager on 09/18/2016 06:02:18

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

Members Avatar

USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2016 : 06:36:32

Read Bruce's response a couple of times. It isn't to scare you off, just stressing to prepare,prepare, prepare. I read a blog about sailing to and exploring the Bahamas in a Potter or West Wight 16, more of an adventure than I would take on. Getting there takes the most timing, but exploring the main island group is certainly doable.

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2016 : 07:45:42

On one of my first cruises of Florida's Gulf coast, in my C22, I stopped at the Tierra Verde Resort where I met the late Bill Robinson, editor of Yachting and Cruising World magazine and author of about 30 books on sailing. His opinion was, "Sure, you can sail your C22 to the Bahamas. My first Bahamas cruise was in a 24' sailboat."

I never got around to making that crossing, but lots of small boats have been doing it for years, either alone or in company with other boats. A friend sailed his 23' trailer sailer to the Bahamas from Miami, all around the Abacos and eventually to Nassau and back. He told me he encountered one day of stormy weather north of Nassau that concerned him.

Most of the small boats that make the crossing don't sail all through the Abacos, like my friend. They sail from Miami to Bimini and back. Many years ago, before the C25 Association had it's own website, we were hosted by the Trailer Sailors Association on their website. Here's a link. They have been organizing fleet cruises to Bimini and elsewhere for many years, and would be able to provide a wealth of first hand information about the crossing. http://www.trailersailors.info/about/

You are pondering all the right questions. Is your boat up to the task? Do you have the necessary skills? It can be done in a C25 by a skipper with the proper preparation, skills and experience. My preference would be for a slightly bigger, inboard powered boat, such as a Catalina 30, especially if you really want to explore the Abacos and more. It will be bigger and heavier, more comfortable for longer term living, and with more storage space for clothes and provisions.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2016 : 08:02:41

I'm guessing you're in Canada... (?) Are you thinking of trailering your boat into the US, down to Florida and then back into Canada? Or do you plan to move away from the Great Lakes? If this is just a "trip", have you considered chartering? If I did, I'd charter in the Bahamas or the Caribbean and skip the crossing of the Gulf Stream.

If you have a fin keel C-25, the Bahamas might be a little more challenging, with its shifting shoals. A swing keel crossing the Stream would not make me comfortable. A C-25 wing might be the better (not best) choice, but as pointed out, its design is for sailing where you have an option to go hide in nasty weather and seas--"coastal cruising." That said, people do all of this stuff and survive it. The "spirit of adventure" covers a virtually infinite spectrum!

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 09/18/2016 08:07:07

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2016 : 08:10:59

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Milby

"...My first Bahamas cruise was in a 24' sailboat..."

Maybe like a Pacific Seacraft Dana?

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 09/18/2016 08:11:38

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2016 : 08:55:00

quote:
Originally posted by Stinkpotter

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Milby

"...My first Bahamas cruise was in a 24' sailboat..."
Maybe like a Pacific Seacraft Dana?

I don't think that company existed when he made that passage as a young man, or that he could have afforded an expensive boat at that time in his life. My recollection is that it was a wooden hulled boat, as they all were in that era, and it didn't look very spacious. I remember seeing a photo of it in one of his books. The seaworthiness of wooden boats was largely a matter of the extent that they suffered from rot.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2016 : 10:03:12

Dave B - I agree completely. It's not about dissuasion or disapproval. I've been adventuring almost all my life in one way or another. It's about calculating the odds, preparing to minimize the odds and not being reckless. I believe that everyone should take on challenges that they can master - if that's their bent. But expose yourself to the truth - what 1000s of others have learned. Could save your life.

I teach a kayak safety course here in CT. I give students the facts about quick water and white water paddling - what to watch out for like strainers and low head dams. How to dress for the weather and the water.

I get students to take their boats into the pool and learn how to wet exit and to re-enter the boat solo with a paddle float and in pairs using a T rescue. I train on wind, current and passagemaking. Most of my students have never been knocked out of their boats but they eventually will - half cannot re-enter the boat without training. I think of newbies who get pushed 5 miles out by wind and current, then cannot get back in the boat - in April or October - alone.

Just know the facts. It's great to do amazing things. I admire those who do. Sad for their families when hubris, accident or poor preparation takes its toll.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2016 : 13:28:45

quote:
Originally posted by Voyager

Just know the facts. It's great to do amazing things. I admire those who do. Sad for their families when hubris, accident or poor preparation takes its toll.

I am currently reading How NOT to Buy a Cruising Boat by Deb and TJ Akey. They discuss (among many other topics) the willingness of a significant other. Their experience is that most of the abandoned cruising yachts for sale are a result of an unwilling partner stepping off the boat.

This book along with Quest On the Thorny Path by David Beaupre I consider must reads for the uninitiated.

Edited by - OJ on 09/18/2016 13:34:58

islander
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2016 : 15:19:32

Isn't there some sort of buddy system for boats going to and from the Bahamas? I think I have heard something like that. You can sail in a group.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2016 : 15:35:46

quote:
Originally posted by islander

Isn't there some sort of buddy system for boats going to and from the Bahamas? I think I have heard something like that. You can sail in a group.

Trailersailor used to organize group cruises to Bimini frequently. I haven't checked to see if they're still doing it, but expect that they are. At one time it was almost annually. http://www.trailersailors.info/about/

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Frank Law
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
159 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2016 : 14:13:36

I have a friend who has made several trips to the Bahamas in a 23' er he always goes at night which he says will give better conditions . He did it yearly for a number of years (no it was not any special design boat)

Frank Law
ex cat 25 sailor

sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

Members Avatar

814 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2016 : 21:18:06

This dude did it:

http://svmeadowlark.blogspot.com

Seth
"Outlier" 1987 Catalina 25 SR/SK/Traditional Interior #5541
"Zoo" 1977 Morgan Out Island 30
"Nomad" 1980 Prindle 16
"Lost" 1988 Catalina Capri 14.2 (sold - yay!)
"Marine Tex 1" Unknown Origin POS 8' Fiberglass Dinghy
https://whichsailboat.com/2014/07/27/catalina-25-review/

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 09/20/2016 : 06:33:07

quote:
Originally posted by sethp001

This dude did it: http://svmeadowlark.blogspot.com

I didn't see any details, but that pop-top sure looks like a C-25. So I looked up Meadowlark on our Boat Search, and she and Martin Nelic there--1987 SR/WK. Looks like we haven't heard from Martin since early 2015. But I found these by him--a master videographer with the selfie-stick!

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 09/20/2016 06:57:37

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 09/20/2016 : 10:09:16

quote:
Should I be looking at upgrading my ship since I am upgrading the waters I plan to sail on ? Or is this a question of low skill level ?

The OP hasn't checked in recently, but I'll add a couple of comments.

I never sailed my C25 or even current boat to the Bahamas. But I did sail my C25 up and down the west coast of Florida. One thing to keep in mind is that ocean swells and lake chop are two different things. In Tampa Bay we get a steep choppy wave action similar to a lake. The Gulf of Mexico is a different animal. And the Atlantic is, sometimes, different than both.

Can you sail a C25 in FL and the Bahamas? Yes you can, but you will need to more careful about the weather, tides and the time of year. First, an inboard diesel would be a better option but you can sail here with an outboard. The time of the year is probably the most important thing. In the winter, November thru March, we get cold fronts that sweep down from the north. Even the weather forecasters are never sure how far south they will dip. They can dip all the way down to the Keys. Of course just like everywhere else they bring gusty winds and make trying to make a plan difficult. In the summer, at least here on the Gulf coast, winds are usually light, but we have to deal with strong afternoon thunderstorms and a sea breeze that can make passages difficult.

The best time of the year to sail here is April - early June. Then again Sept. - Oct. The rest of the year requires more weather watching.

I'll just add that on a trip to the Keys in my Gemini, on the Atlantic side, yet still inside the reef, we had swells that would have made me $h!t my pants in a C25.

So anyway you can bring your C25 here, you just have to wait for the right combination of weather and be prepared to duck in and find shelter if needed.

Davy J

2005 Gemini 105Mc
PO 1987 C25 #5509 SR/SK
Tampa Bay

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.