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 Cam, Jam or Horn...?		  New Topic  Topic Locked
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Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts
Initially Posted - 07/15/2016 :  13:46:16  Show Profile  Visit Bladeswell's Homepage
Hello Again,

I have all of the parts and some partially installed for my topping lift and my out haul. Which cleat do you guys recommend or prefer on the side of the boom ? And should I cleat them both off on the boom or lead one forward to the mast and then back to the cockpit ? If it matters, I will be single handed most of the time. Thanks again everyone.


Bladeswell
C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts
Response Posted - 07/15/2016 :  13:57:27  Show Profile
Loose-footed or bolt rope? How much do you expect to adjust either line? My topping lift was cleated with a V-groove on one side of the micro-fiddle block I used for it, and had a stopper knot in addition--very convenient to adjust at anchor or whatever. My out-haul was cleated to a horn on the boom, since with a bolt rope foot, I set it and forgot it.
Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge
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Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts
Response Posted - 07/15/2016 :  14:49:29  Show Profile  Visit Bladeswell's Homepage
Hi Again,

My main is a bolt rope main. Well, mounted to slides. You would probably know better than I about how often I may use either. I would guess that I would only need the topping lift for occasional reefing. The main will be staying on once installed. I assume that I should relax or ease the outhaul at the end of each sailing day. Hope this helps. Thanks again.


Bladeswell
C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.
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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts
Response Posted - 07/15/2016 :  14:53:44  Show Profile
Either a cam cleat or a clam cleat. A Jam cleat is similar to a horn cleat, but it has one horn narrower than the other. You literally jam the line against itself. A clam cleat is usually black plastic and the line fits into a slot that narrows, and has ridges that grip the line and hold it. A topping lift on a 25' boat doesn't have to hold much weight. I used a small clam cleat on both my C25 and my Cal 25, but a cam cleat will work as well. Your preference. However you rig it, it should be easily adjustable from the cockpit. I use a very light, 3/16" dacron line. It offers very little wind resistance, little weight aloft, and it's strong enough to do the job.
Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore
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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts
Response Posted - 07/15/2016 :  15:01:56  Show Profile
I use my topping lift every time I raise, lower or reef the mainsail. When you raise the sail, it prevents the boom from dropping into the cockpit or onto your head. It's different from the pig tail in one very important respect. If you raise the mainsail while the pigtail is attached, and the wind catches the sail before you can unhook it, the boat can become hard to control and the pressure on the sail makes it difficult to unhook the pig tail. With a topping lift, the sail can swing from side to side, luffing freely.
Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore
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Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts
Response Posted - 07/15/2016 :  16:00:24  Show Profile
When I switched to a loose footed main and added an outhaul I added a clam cleat with a fairlead, with the line led back towards the mast about a foot short of the gooseneck.

Clam cleat with fairlead:
Davy J


2005 Gemini 105Mc
PO 1987 C25 #5509 SR/SK
Tampa Bay
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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts
Response Posted - 07/15/2016 :  17:33:34  Show Profile
Clam cleats with fairleads work for me. Because I have a Bimini I have to have the lines terminate at the boom end. The upper cleat is the outhaul that since I have a bolt rope main gets set and then forgotten. The bottom cleat is my aft reefing line of a 2 line system. The forward reefing line is led to the cockpit. My topping lift is tied to one side of the boom then goes up to a small block on the end of the topping wire then down to a cheek block on the other side of the boom then forward to a horn cleat on the boom.(two lines in the upper left)
Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound


Edited by - islander on 07/15/2016 17:36:29
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts
Response Posted - 07/16/2016 :  08:14:51  Show Profile
If you choose Davy J's fairlead/clam for the topping lift, I'd put a stopper knot toward the end of the line so with the sail furled or when reefing, if it releases from the clam, the knot will catch at the cleat and the boom won't come crashing down. I set my topping lift so that it barely went slack at full hoist but held the boom above my bimini with the sail doused. I only occasionally used it to raise the boom for more clearance in the cockpit at the dock.
Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge
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Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts
Response Posted - 07/16/2016 :  16:19:41  Show Profile  Visit Bladeswell's Homepage
Thanks again guys,

Always great advice here. I believe I will go with a combination of everyone's advice. I see WM has a V groove clam cleat with Fairlead. I wasn't aware that they were available with a fairlead. I like the way it looks in the above pics and definitely see the advantages of tying in a stopper knot. It also looks like a good solution against having too much extra line. Thanks again everyone.


Bladeswell
C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.
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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts
Response Posted - 07/16/2016 :  16:59:03  Show Profile
Just remember to get the right size cleat for the size line you are using. Clams usually will accommodate a couple of line sizes but I like to have the smallest rated line for the cleat that way the line gets deeper into the groove and IMO holds better.
Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound


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Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts
Response Posted - 07/16/2016 :  17:40:20  Show Profile  Visit Bladeswell's Homepage
Thanks Scott,

I am using 5/16 line and was going to get the medium-sized cleat. But the medium says 5/16 maximum line size. So I would have gone the wrong direction. Thanks for the tip.

Bladeswell
C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts
Response Posted - 07/16/2016 :  19:39:54  Show Profile
5/16ths is pretty hefty for a topping lift on a C-25. 1/4" is more than adequate.
Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge
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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts
Response Posted - 07/18/2016 :  12:11:40  Show Profile
I use V-jam blocks for both and don't need to drill holes in the boom and don't mind have these two controls at the end of the boom:

http://www.westmarine.com/buy/harken--22mm-fiddle-micro-block-with-v-jam-cleat--289975

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts
Response Posted - 07/18/2016 :  13:28:27  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Dave5041

I use V-jam blocks for both and don't need to drill holes in the boom and don't mind have these two controls at the end of the boom:
http://www.westmarine.com/buy/harken--22mm-fiddle-micro-block-with-v-jam-cleat--289975
Exactly what I had on the topping lift.
Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge
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Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.