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 Raise mast without the backstay attached		  New Topic  Reply to Topic
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solvasoncc
1st Mate

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USA
46 Posts
Initially Posted - 05/17/2020 :  07:02:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I wonder, with the swept back spreaders, can you raise the mast WITHOUT the backstay attached? It seems to always catch on something when raising. I am wanting to leave the rudder and motor on the boat (to speed things up at the ramp). I think I could raise it and then just quick pin the backstay once its raised up. What do you think?

I did it for years with a San Juan 21 which only had a marginal (5-10 deg) spreader angle. I think the angle on the 250 is much larger and should be just fine. In fact, I often question the purpose of the combination of swept back spreaders plus a backstay.

Charles

Catalina 250 WK SR Hull #475
College Station, TX

HappyNow
1st Mate

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USA
99 Posts
Response Posted - 05/17/2020 :  09:32:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I agree that the backstay gets caught on lots of things when raising, especially if you have a split backstay. I think you could raise it 90% of the way and then attach the back stays. If you raise it all the way, the shrouds might keep it from falling forward, but at 90% you have avoided the backstay catching on anything and they are still loose enough to attach easily.
Michael Levin
Sailin' on Sunshine
C250 #402 WK
Lake Tahoe
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TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2269 Posts
Response Posted - 05/17/2020 :  21:10:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by solvasoncc

I wonder, with the swept back spreaders, can you raise the mast WITHOUT the backstay attached? It seems to always catch on something when raising. I am wanting to leave the rudder and motor on the boat (to speed things up at the ramp). I think I could raise it and then just quick pin the backstay once its raised up. What do you think?

I did it for years with a San Juan 21 which only had a marginal (5-10 deg) spreader angle. I think the angle on the 250 is much larger and should be just fine. In fact, I often question the purpose of the combination of swept back spreaders plus a backstay.

A few comments:

What do you mean by "quick pin"? If it's one of those clevis pins with a little spring-loaded ball bearing at the end, you may be asking for trouble. Those can easily work their way loose with the slightest amount of vibration.

I measured the spreader sweep angle at 16 degrees. A true B&R rig with no backstay has a 30 degree sweep angle. While it is true that your fully tensioned uppers will prevent the mast from moving too far forward in a static condition, 16 degrees does not provide sufficient angle of attack to withstand a strong following breeze in use. The tension would be too high and would damage the rig and/or the chainplates.

Also, note that the fully tensioned uppers will prevent the mast from moving backwards. So prior to detaching the forestay to lower the mast, you must de-tension the uppers or you will damage your rig.

One nice thing about the split backstay is that you could SIGNIFICANTLY de-tension it by releasing one side and leaving the other side attached. This gave ample slack to remove/attach the forestay. I used to use my boom vang tackle to take up the tension from the port split, allowing me to release the shackle on the port side. I realize that your boat might have a single backstay, so this option may not be available to you.
Rick S., Swarthmore, PA
PO of Take Five, 1998 Catalina 250WK #348 (relocated to Baltimore's Inner Harbor)
New owner of 2001 Catalina 34MkII #1535 Breakin' Away (at Rock Hall Landing Marina)
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solvasoncc
1st Mate

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USA
46 Posts
Response Posted - 05/18/2020 :  06:39:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TakeFive

quote:
Originally posted by solvasoncc

I wonder, with the swept back spreaders, can you raise the mast WITHOUT the backstay attached? It seems to always catch on something when raising. I am wanting to leave the rudder and motor on the boat (to speed things up at the ramp). I think I could raise it and then just quick pin the backstay once its raised up. What do you think?

I did it for years with a San Juan 21 which only had a marginal (5-10 deg) spreader angle. I think the angle on the 250 is much larger and should be just fine. In fact, I often question the purpose of the combination of swept back spreaders plus a backstay.

A few comments:

What do you mean by "quick pin"? If it's one of those clevis pins with a little spring-loaded ball bearing at the end, you may be asking for trouble. Those can easily work their way loose with the slightest amount of vibration.

I measured the spreader sweep angle at 16 degrees. A true B&R rig with no backstay has a 30 degree sweep angle. While it is true that your fully tensioned uppers will prevent the mast from moving too far forward in a static condition, 16 degrees does not provide sufficient angle of attack to withstand a strong following breeze in use. The tension would be too high and would damage the rig and/or the chainplates.

Also, note that the fully tensioned uppers will prevent the mast from moving backwards. So prior to detaching the forestay to lower the mast, you must de-tension the uppers or you will damage your rig.

One nice thing about the split backstay is that you could SIGNIFICANTLY de-tension it by releasing one side and leaving the other side attached. This gave ample slack to remove/attach the forestay. I used to use my boom vang tackle to take up the tension from the port split, allowing me to release the shackle on the port side. I realize that your boat might have a single backstay, so this option may not be available to you.


Great suggestion about pinning one side of the split backstay. That is exactly what I am doing now, I basically treat it as a single (with a normal pin), then use the main halyard on the stern cleat to give me enough slack to quick pin the other side, but it does still get caught occasionally. That is why I was wondering if I could just pin it after the fact.

I must disagree on the quick pins. I use quick pins all over all my boats and have done so for 25+ years without issue. I cannot recommend them enough for speeding things up. Mind you these are the push button type, not the ring and ball type.

I do keep my rig pretty slack on the backstay (gives me just a slight amount of forestay sag for those light-medium days). The uppers are certainly the highest tension on the boat and give me most of the bend in the mast I seek for proper sail shape. That being said, I have never had to de-tension the uppers to lower the mast. Perhaps you are using higher tension or your chainplates are in a different position? What do you keep yours set at?

Thanks.

Charles

Catalina 250 WK SR Hull #475
College Station, TX
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DavidCrosby
Navigator

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USA
229 Posts
Response Posted - 05/18/2020 :  06:43:40  Show Profile  Visit DavidCrosby's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by solvasoncc

I wonder, with the swept back spreaders, can you raise the mast WITHOUT the backstay attached?


You can absolutely raise your mast without the backstay attached. And there is no rush to pin it. I have been doing it this way for over 10 years. I raise and lower my mast multiple times each year.

I do not recommend sailing without the backstay.
David Crosby "Small World"
'02 C250 WK #614
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Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.