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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Broken Sail Slides - Part Two

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keats
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USA
215 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/23/2019 : 10:10:04

In a thread below I got some advice on repairing my top two broken mainsail slides, one of which was sewn onto the top plate with webbing.

I fixed yesterday, thanks to those who helped.

Went to raise the main and it wouldn't go up all the way. It stopped dead about six inches from the top. I assumed a broken off slug was stuck in the track so I hauled up a single, spare slide on the halyard (with a downhaul attached) and hammered on it from below until the broken part freed and came sliding down the track.

Success, so I thought.

Raised the main again and it stopped again, this time maybe 4 inches from the top. I figured it must be the second broken slide. Got out the binoculars and I could clearly see the two broken ends of the top slide, stuck in the track.

I tried the hammering technique again with no luck. I broke the spare slide I hauled up and was afraid of forcing it any more in case I was damaging something or just jammimg the broken part even more.

I'm past the age of climbing the mast or going up in a chair and I'd rather not drop the mast right now.

I was thinking of getting a metal or partly metal slide and hauling that up, hoping it will break up what remains of the jammed plastic slug.

I wonder how the track ends up there. Being an extrusion, I assume it must be continuous to the mast head casting. Does anyone know if there is a hard stop up there or anything else that the broken slide might be stuck on? It appears to be about 4 inches down from the top of the track.

I was able to lower the boom and sail with a tight luff that day but, having a tall rig already, the boom was awful low.

In short, I can't raise my mainsail all the way due to a broken plastic slide stuck in the mast track.

And experiece or advice would be appreciated.

Tim Keating
1985 C-25 TR/FK #4940
Midsummer
Lake Don Pedro, CA

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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1889 Posts

Response Posted - 06/23/2019 : 13:32:11

On the 1979 standard rig mast I have handy, the top of the extrusion luff groove dead ends against a flat surface level with the end of the extrusion (i.e. like you'd expect).

Dunno about your groove and stuck slug, but in general, I've seen slugs used which were barely wide enough to not fall out of the slot. I prefer closer to one size smaller than would rub against both sides of the groove, but I'm not a sailmaker.

If your broken slug might be stuck because it's tilted in the groove and wedged in the slot, then try to determine which way it's leaning. My guess would be top fwd, bottom aft (bottom end wedged in the slot) from halyard pulling up and fwd. You'll notice in the image of an exemplary mainsail slug which Scott provided in your previous "Advice Needed - Broke Top Sail Slide" thread, there's a plastic guide shoe outside the slot which prevents the slug from tilting excessively in the groove.

If you're confident it's jammed tilted, then maybe devise a wedge attached to one or two slugs to pry it the other way... without becoming stuck as well, thus compounding your problem.

� Leon

� Leon Sisson

islander
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Response Posted - 06/23/2019 : 14:02:32

I'm afraid to make any suggestions. I don't think it's possible to push the broken slug up an out the top as Leon pointed out. Hammering away at it from the bottom could possibly loosen it or make it tighter. You could also end up jamming the good slug up there also. That's a crap shoot if you want to continue hammering it from the bottom. As you said you already broke a new one with that method. My yard has an Arial bucket for fixing problems with sailboats so they don't have to drop the mast. It's a nice service. I'm going to pass on any advice only because I don't want you to hate me if it didn't work or made things worse.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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1889 Posts

Response Posted - 06/23/2019 : 19:28:17

Re: "I'm afraid to make any suggestions. ... That's a crap shoot if you want to continue... I'm going to pass on any advice only because I don't want you to hate me if it didn't work or made things worse."

Well then, this sounds like a case for the Masked Improvisor! Lurking in the shadows, his (or her) suggestions make the wackiest ideas of others seem foolproof and reliable by comparison.

Mission Impossible disclaimer
If this goes badly, I categorically deny having even vaguely implied there was any chance it might work.

Suppose one in a similar situation had on hand a sample of the exact material the stuck slug is made of, and a few still intact sacrificial slugs of the same material.

Further suppose the intact slug had a countersunk depression centered in its top end, similar to a hollow point bullet. One might soften that countersunk depression with an appropriate solvent-based plastic adhesive. Then very carefully, taking great care not to end up with dissolved plastic smeared in the luff groove, or a second slug glued to the groove, gently raise that sticky slug up against the stuck one.

It might help with alignment if the sticky slug were pushed up into place by a second countersunk slug leashed to it from below, thus reducing any tendency for halyard tension to tilt the pair of stuck slugs, wedging both in the groove. After holding it firm and steady there for an appropriate length of time (as determined by previous experiments with sacrificial slugs at ground level), try pulling both slugs back down.

If it seemed likely that the sticky slug could become contaminated by dirt or lubricant on its way up, then the chances of success might be improved by first thoroughly cleaning the groove, perhaps using two or more slugs leashed together with one or more wads of something absorbent (like an oversized cigarette filter) in the groove between them, saturated with an appropriate solvent such as alcohol, acetone, or mineral spirits.

If one could think of a practical way to similarly clean the bottom surface of the stuck slug, that might also help. Maybe an actual cigarette filter saturated with solvent, small enough to definitely not get jammed in the groove, and attached to the top of a slug with a fishhook, or similar means of retrieving it.

This speculative mental exercise may self-destruct, or otherwise blow up in your face, at any moment.

Good luck in your mission.

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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4275 Posts

Response Posted - 06/23/2019 : 20:09:05

How about getting some PVC pipe (or telescoping painters pole), fastening a bent nail or some other stiff metal to it, reaching up and inserting the nail just above the slug and pulling it down.

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GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1889 Posts

Response Posted - 06/23/2019 : 20:41:20

GaryB,

Re: "How about getting some PVC pipe (or telescoping painters pole), fastening a bent nail or some other stiff metal to it, reaching up and inserting the nail just above the slug and pulling it down."

I like that idea! Although I doubt I could maneuver a long flexible pole more than 25 feet overhead while standing on the deck of a floating boat with enough precision to guide a nail into a 3/16" slot, maybe the main halyard could be used to hold it close, using the pole to do the last bit of weaving, twisting, and poking.

Let's see, binoculars in one hand, 30' pipe in the other... Can we work a GoPro video camera in here somehow?

� Leon

� Leon Sisson

keats
Navigator

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215 Posts

Response Posted - 06/23/2019 : 23:48:34

I like your first idea Leon, a slug with a wedge to work it loose. I think I can come up with something.

Thanks to Scott for the note of caution and to Gary for the other creative idea.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Tim Keating
1985 C-25 TR/FK #4940
Midsummer
Lake Don Pedro, CA

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3474 Posts

Response Posted - 06/25/2019 : 09:48:16

Drop the mast

Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4275 Posts

Response Posted - 06/25/2019 : 18:34:10

quote:
Originally posted by Leon Sisson

GaryB,

Re: "How about getting some PVC pipe (or telescoping painters pole), fastening a bent nail or some other stiff metal to it, reaching up and inserting the nail just above the slug and pulling it down."

I like that idea! Although I doubt I could maneuver a long flexible pole more than 25 feet overhead while standing on the deck of a floating boat with enough precision to guide a nail into a 3/16" slot, maybe the main halyard could be used to hold it close, using the pole to do the last bit of weaving, twisting, and poking.

Let's see, binoculars in one hand, 30' pipe in the other... Can we work a GoPro video camera in here somehow?

� Leon

No harder than threading a needle!

Use a drone instead of the Go Pro. Put it in a hover, use a 12" IPad with the drone to view the end of the pole so you can slide it into the slot.

Shouldn't take more than a hundred tries before you are successful! LOL

Association Member

GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

keats
Navigator

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USA
215 Posts

Response Posted - 06/25/2019 : 20:47:28

quote:
Originally posted by redeye

Drop the mast

Man I've got to give it the old college try before resorting to that. A $3 piece of plastic!

Tim Keating
1985 C-25 TR/FK #4940
Midsummer
Lake Don Pedro, CA

keats
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215 Posts

Response Posted - 07/01/2019 : 11:42:41

I have to give a big thanks to Leon for his advice which lead to a successful repair of the sail slides stuck high in my mast. It turned out to be be two broken off slugs jammed side-by-side ultimately.

Leon, your idea of raising a slide with some sort of wedge attachment got me thinking and I fashioned a couple of these with some old slides and a couple of small stainless steel control levers I had laying around.

I ground the ball end of the lever at an angle to form a sharp wedge. I drilled a hole in the top of the slug just about the same size as the post on the lever. I pressed the wedge in but didn't glue it so it can now swivel in all directions.

I tried it out Saturday morning and broke the first slide by hammering a little to hard (you can see that they aren't new by any means). With the second one, I tried a little more finesse, gently tapping while adjusting the wedge to different angles.

Voila, down came two broken off slugs.

Thank you again Leon for saving be from a mast dropping and giving me some excellent sailing this weekend.

Later on, heavy duty slides from top to bottom and some good lubrication.

Tim Keating
1985 C-25 TR/FK #4940
Midsummer
Lake Don Pedro, CA

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