Association Forum - Bow Repair

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Bow Repair - Freakin Ouch

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Previous Page | Next Page

Author

Topic

Page: of 3

jduck00
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
313 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2015 : 15:48:27

No idea why the images aren't showing up. I've been uploading to the site and then linking them in. On another topic, the upload and reset buttons on the upload page feel like they need to be swapped. Anyone else get that? I almost click reset every time. May just be a me thing.

I kinda cheat islander. I've been using the dinghy to work off of. On the plus side, my balance has greatly improved since starting this project. Although I feel like I need about 5 hands when I'm laying glass from the dinghy. Never fails that the wind picks up a bit and tries to push me off.

The fiberglass work has started in earnest now. This is my first time using epoxy and from a usability standpoint, I still prefer poly resin. I've gotten to used to controlling my cure times and not having to have a couple different hardners to use. That and it seems like the cure time for the epoxy is generally higher than poly. I'm talking 6-8 hours after laying it before I can work with it to any degree. Still though, can't argue with the adhesive properties of epoxy. I've gotten drips on dirty surfaces that poly would have just popped off. Not epoxy, once it hits a surface and cures, its there.

I tried getting the new core for the bow in last night, but the plywood was perfectly flat and the bow deck is slightly curved. I put the plywood cut out against the palm tree in the back yard, and put a heavy ratchet strap around it. Put just enough of a curve in it overnight that it almost fit. Good enough to clamp down and make work anyway.

Jeremy Duck
The Lucky Duck
1980 SKSR Hull # 1850

Admin
Forum Admin

Members Avatar

460 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2015 : 17:41:23

Jeremy, your pics are showing up just fine.

Watching your progress which is pretty impressive!

keep them coming.

paul

Web Editor

jduck00
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
313 Posts

Response Posted - 03/20/2015 : 17:11:20

Got the reinforcing glass work done. I've got a good start on rebuilding the chunk of fiberglass knocked out of the tip of the bow. Tomorrow, I'll sand off the cardboard I used for a mold and finish up with the reinforcing. Then its just a matter of relaying the deck.

I did find one thing that epoxy resin wont stick to, maybe poly also but I've never tried it, aluminum foil. A good smooth sheet of foil will peal right off cured epoxy. Wish I had known that when I put up the cardboard molds. Live and learn.

Started to get the problem fixed with the outboard and found this little guy hanging out. Looks like he fell in the canal and decided to climb up my outboard. Managed to chase him off the boat and into the vacant lot next to us. Its amazing how having your 8 year old daughter watching changes the way you deal with a rat.

Jeremy Duck
The Lucky Duck
1980 SKSR Hull # 1850

britinusa
Web Editor

Members Avatar

USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 03/20/2015 : 19:35:34

Are you going to build up the cap or make it off site and glass it in?

Paul

Joint Decision. (Sold)
PO C250WB 2005 Sail # 841.

Moved up to C34 Eximius

Updated August 2015

Tomas Kruska
Admiral

Members Avatar

Czech Republic
522 Posts

Response Posted - 03/21/2015 : 01:00:43

If you want to prevent the expoy to stick to something, just use the ordinary polyethylene food bags. Nothing sticks to it, unlike the aluminum sheets.

Also one thing about applying new epoxy over the old one. The epoxy creates amine blush on the surface when curing which will prevent strong bond to another layers.
You have to sand it or just wash it with a warm soapy water.

Your repair looks good so far, but I think you should prolong that plywood coring entirely to the bow. It's not visible from your pictures, but you should also put a layer or two beneath the coring to make it completely water tight.

Dalpol Phobos 21, 2013, Sole Mio, hull #27, current adventures - We sail Phobos 21

PO of Catalina C25, 1978, High Anxiety, hull #701, SR, FK, L-dinette, inboard diesel Volvo Penta MD2010C w/saildrive - more info

Edited by - Tomas Kruska on 03/21/2015 01:06:44

britinusa
Web Editor

Members Avatar

USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 03/21/2015 : 05:13:37

Jeremy,
do you have wire screens on your port side aft vent cowling to prevent ratty getting in?

Paul

Joint Decision. (Sold)
PO C250WB 2005 Sail # 841.

Moved up to C34 Eximius

Updated August 2015

jduck00
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
313 Posts

Response Posted - 03/21/2015 : 07:02:54

Thomas thanks for the tip on the bags. Didn't know that. I don't plan on putting any coring in the bow tip. I'm going to lay glass to the same thickness. Not that I plan to be sailing the boat 30 years from now, I'm just eliminating anything that will rot from under the chainplate. After I get the top of the deck finished, I'm going to glass the bottom side of it. I still have two smaller pieces of coring to put in under the cleats.

Paul, I have bug screens, but I doubt they would prevent a determined rat that big from getting in. I might have to look at something a bit more substantial.

Jeremy Duck
The Lucky Duck
1980 SKSR Hull # 1850

islander
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 03/21/2015 : 07:23:15

I wonder if cooking oil or silicone sprayed on the cardboard would work.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

jduck00
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
313 Posts

Response Posted - 03/21/2015 : 19:41:46

I feel like I got to a milestone today. Its still a bit rough but I'm working on getting the final shape glassed up. At least I don't have a huge gaping hole in bow now.

I worked up until dark so I got a bit more than the pictures show. More to upload tomorrow.

Jeremy Duck
The Lucky Duck
1980 SKSR Hull # 1850

jduck00
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
313 Posts

Response Posted - 03/21/2015 : 19:42:59

Tomas the plastic bag worked great man. Thanks a ton for that tip.

Jeremy Duck
The Lucky Duck
1980 SKSR Hull # 1850

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4275 Posts

Response Posted - 03/21/2015 : 20:16:53

If you ever hit that wall again I believe you will take it down.

Nice work!

Association Member

GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

Lee Panza
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
465 Posts

Response Posted - 03/22/2015 : 08:54:47

Jeremy;

Congratulations on what looks like it will be a successful outcome to what might have been terminally daunting to many boatowners. Thank you for posting the pictures; they will be a priceless resource for anyone who needs to make repairs or modifications in the forepeak area of a Cat-25 in the future. I have a couple of mods planned that will be greatly assisted by the information you provided about the construction in that region. To that end I'd like to ask for clarification of a few things if you could spare the time. I wish I had had the chance to ask these while you had everything opened-up, but I'm hoping it's still fresh enough in your memory.

There appears to be a strip of some kind of light tan material embedded in the edge of the deck casting, and there seem to be screw holes in the upper edge of the hull casting. There also seems to be a third, brown layer on the inside of the hull-deck joint. And there appears to be some kind of material between the brown liner and the hull down below the level of that joint.

What is that light tan material? It appears to be integral with the deck casting judging by the piece you're holding in your hand in one picture, and in that picture it does not seem to be surrounded by fiberglass. Is it a wood strip or is it an inert material? Is it dense enough to hold wood screws or to not crush if something was through-bolted through it?

Was there no seal between the deck casting and the hull casting in the deck-hull joint?

Were there screws holding the deck casting to the hull casting, or were those holes just from the screws holding the aluminum rub rail track? There appears to be the remains of a coarse-threaded screw evident on the port side of one of your initial series of photos.

Is that brown layer (which seems to have curled inward under the plywood backing under the deck) the upper edge of the pan in the anchor locker, or is it just a reinforcing strip at the top? There seems to be some kind of wavy material between it and the top edge of the hull; what is that?

In one picture, after it appears you had ground-out some of the liner on the inside of the hull, it almost looks like honeycomb between the liner and the hull. Is that liner the top portion of the anchor locker pan, and is that some kind of foam between them?

As I said, the unfortunate circumstances that led to this adventure in advanced DIY structural restoration is a boon to the rest of us DIY'ers, and it could be the difference between someone saving or sacrificing their own boat someday. Any additional information you could provide would be most sincerely appreciated.

And good luck with the final stage, restoring the surface layer. Sadly, no matter how proud I am of the hidden structural work I've done in various construction projects in the past (including some boat repairs) nobody gets to see and appreciate that; but if the surface doesn't look great nobody else considers it a job well done. At least you'll know that we on this forum who are watching your progress appreciate it. Good work, Jeremy!

The trouble with a destination - any destination, really - is that it interrupts The Journey.

Lee Panza
SR/SK #2134
San Francisco Bay
(Brisbane, CA)

Tomas Kruska
Admiral

Members Avatar

Czech Republic
522 Posts

Response Posted - 03/22/2015 : 10:41:52

quote:
Originally posted by GaryB

If you ever hit that wall again I believe you will take it down.

Great progress J.

jduck00
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
313 Posts

Response Posted - 03/22/2015 : 12:05:27

Today was a slow work day on the boat. I'm posting a couple of progress pics while I'm waiting for a table for our Sunday afternoon eats and drinks.

Lee no worries on my memory being fuzzy. This has consumed my life for the last week. I'll answer your questions when I get back to the house tonight.

Jeremy Duck
The Lucky Duck
1980 SKSR Hull # 1850

Edited by - jduck00 on 03/22/2015 13:47:36

britinusa
Web Editor

Members Avatar

USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 03/22/2015 : 13:41:00

I'm not sure that a pro boat yard would get the job done so quickly.

Are you renaming the boat after this?

Paul

Joint Decision. (Sold)
PO C250WB 2005 Sail # 841.

Moved up to C34 Eximius

Updated August 2015

jduck00
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
313 Posts

Response Posted - 03/22/2015 : 13:50:48

Yeah Paul I'm not feeling that lucky right now when it comes to boats, but I don't think the admiral would approve a name change.

Jeremy Duck
The Lucky Duck
1980 SKSR Hull # 1850

pearson39b
1st Mate

Members Avatar

93 Posts

Response Posted - 03/22/2015 : 14:07:05

This is probably too late for Jeremy, and I'm not even sure it will work with plywood, but my boat neighbor gave me a great tip when I was replacing some curved wood trim inside my old sail boat. If you steam the piece while applying pressure with weight on both ends, and a piece of pvc under the center, the curve will hold once it dries out. Little tricky getting the curve just right, but I seem to remember the old time wooden boat builders used steam to shape curved pieces, and I'm sure a lot of furniture is built this way.

Sailor Jerry
C-25 "Sea Song"
1978, SK, Std.
Pepin, WI

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1736 Posts

Response Posted - 03/22/2015 : 14:22:56

Very impressive progress Jeremy -- you may have a new calling as a shipwright!

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

jduck00
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
313 Posts

Response Posted - 03/22/2015 : 15:26:28

So the slow day is probably an after effect of the amount of rum I had last night. Still though, I made my hung over self get up and make a couple of passes with the fiberglass. Its getting there. Two more passes and I'll be done with the top side. Still have to get some coring in around the cleats and get the bottom side glassed in.

Lee, I'll do my best to answer your questions. You got them in just in time. I had thrown the old pieces in the trash. I dug them out to take some pictures for you.

The light tan material is well I don't exactly. Its hard like epoxy and a bit porous. If I had to guess, it is an injectable epoxy that serves to fill the space between to the two hull sections and glue them together.

I got lucky on this hit. The epoxy broke loose from the fiberglass hull and didn't break the hull with it. The top cap basically broke and pushed back off the hull.

The screw holes are just from the rub rail. The one left in the picture was being a bit stubborn coming out.

The liner was laid to the hull fairly good in the bow. The only place I found that injectable epoxy stuff is at the deck seam. That big glob in the picture was not typical for the seam. It only happened in that one spot. I will say that I don't believe the liner is glassed in. I think it is glued to the hull. The reason is that I could peel large chucks of it back with a wood chisel. There were only a few places that I actually had to sand it loose.

In this picture, the liner is grey and the hull is the yellow-ish fiberglass above it.

Here is a picture I got off of Tomas' site. Its what the anchor locker looks like less the plywood. You can see some of the same features in the cut away in my pictures.

Here is a close up of the mat that was used in some parts of the liner and structure. Its large weave mat and it looks like the same stuff the liner was made out of. You can still see it in the picture above. I sanded some more after this picture and removed all of the old liner material from the fiberglass.

Here is a couple of pictures of the cap just so you know what I was taking pictures of.

Don't laugh too much at my crazy paint skills. It was the quickest way I could think to put notes on the pics.

I also uploaded all of the pictures to FLickr. You can get the full size version that show a bit more than the ones on the forum.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/31535935@N08/sets/72157651493058892/

Thanks for all of the encouragement guys. This hasn't been an easy project, but there's no way I'm going to spend the spring sitting on the dock wishing I could go sailing.

Jeremy Duck
The Lucky Duck
1980 SKSR Hull # 1850

Edited by - jduck00 on 03/22/2015 15:31:59

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3474 Posts

Response Posted - 03/23/2015 : 06:57:23

Sweet!

Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel

jduck00
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
313 Posts

Response Posted - 03/23/2015 : 17:49:16

I didn't get a whole lot done today. Had to work a bit late from taking last week off, but I still made myself go out and make a little progress. Only had about an hour of daylight to work with. I did manage to finish roughing in the deck and trimming up the sides to keep the lines the same.

I pretty much have all of the rough glass work done now. I still have some after I bed the chainplate. The chainplate fits real well for being roughed in. I have between 1/16 to 1/8 to build up under it. I didn't get a picture of it just yet. I don't trust to not fall off in the canal while I stand back for the pic.

Immediate list of todos:

* Lay cloth and finish glass the deck.
* Bolt down the chainplate and bed it down with glass.
* Lay cloth and finish the sides
* Finish in the lines and prep for gelcoat.

My list of todos is getting real short right now. Should have the chainplate on by Thursday. Don't know if I'll be sailing this weekend but it will be close.

Jeremy Duck
The Lucky Duck
1980 SKSR Hull # 1850

islander
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 03/24/2015 : 05:36:26

I'm curious, Are you going to be able to re-shape the aluminum rub rail or is that toast?

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

jduck00
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
313 Posts

Response Posted - 03/24/2015 : 05:48:39

The section of rub rail I cut off is trash. Too mangle to do anything with. I'm not going to replace the rub rail until this winter. There is section of it on the starbord side that needs replacing as well. It won't look that great but it won't keep me from sailing.

Jeremy Duck
The Lucky Duck
1980 SKSR Hull # 1850

britinusa
Web Editor

Members Avatar

USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 03/24/2015 : 11:20:09

My turn at curiosity.

You mention that you're planing to "Bolt down the chainplate and bed it down with glass."

I presume you're talking about the new bow chainplate/roller assembly.

Does it require 'bedding down with glass'??

I thought the bow might get shaped for a nice fit and then the plate being mounted with Butyl tape between the metal and the deck/hull.

Paul

Joint Decision. (Sold)
PO C250WB 2005 Sail # 841.

Moved up to C34 Eximius

Updated August 2015

jduck00
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
313 Posts

Response Posted - 03/24/2015 : 18:26:08

Yes the new stem fitting \ chainplate. I've rough fit the fiberglass well enough I could bolt it on now and go sailing, but there are some gaps here and there under it. I'm going to mix up a thick epoxy mix using fiber filler and lay it in the area where the fitting will go. Then I'm going to set the fitting into it to get a perfect fit. I plan on wrapping the the fitting with a plastic bag to keep the glass from stick to it. That's the plan anyway. We will find out tomorrow if it works well or not.

Jeremy Duck
The Lucky Duck
1980 SKSR Hull # 1850

Page: of 3

Topic

Previous Page | Next Page

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.