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C 25 versus Oracle USA

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Boomeroo
Navigator

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Australia
128 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/04/2015 : 05:25:00

Hi just a bit of interest with your oracle team practice on our lake .

The world moth championships start tomorrow in Melbourne and the oracle team have a number of boats entered including this one a few yards of from our jetty. sometimes had 6 out front practicing

A few good videos on the moth site .. good fill for your cold winter . 95 deg today

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9017 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2015 : 08:49:02

Yup--the Moths are a kick!

http://www.mothworlds.org/sorrento/

Edited by - on

capelyddol
1st Mate

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USA
62 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2015 : 21:19:20

Blimey! They've changed a bit since my day.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9017 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2015 : 21:45:01

They change every day... The Moth class encourages (demands) the most experimentation in whatever makes a boat go fastest under wind-power, within the minimal limitations of a tiny dinghy format. It has long produced the seeds of the technology that has led to things like the latest Americas Cup boats. They were foiling before 2010, doing over 30 knots.

Edited by - on

capelyddol
1st Mate

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USA
62 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2015 : 16:22:49

Maybe I'm just an old fuddy-duddy, but we seem to be moving away from the concept of a traditional sailing boat all for the sake of going faster, faster...

Do we really have to compete with the 500HP outboard machines? Many of these fancy creations don't even look like boats anymore. When I was a lad I could plane a GP14 solo in a force 5 at ten knots (or so) and get all the excitement I needed. Going three times faster was neither an option, nor a desire. I mean, look at that thing! There's just nowhere to put the picnic basket.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5853 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2015 : 17:14:00

High speed sailing is nothing new. Sailors have been capable of making 70 mph speeds under sail for at least a century - on ice boats. These recent advances with foils just give us the <u>option</u> to make amazing speeds on <u>unfrozen</u> water. I expect most of us will still choose to sail our conventional monohulls at 6-7 kts. You can't take your wife and kids and dogs and coolers on a Moth.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9017 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2015 : 18:32:01

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Milby

...You can't take your wife and kids and dogs and coolers on a Moth.

...but maybe on an AC-72.

For many years, people scoffed at the idea of cruising multihulls--now they're an accepted alternative with advantages that have value to many people. Now it's foils...

Racers of many stripes have always been gravitating to boat classes that have more speed... Solings, Etchells, and Stars were once the hot-rods that attracted sailors who liked speed--now they're antiquities a few old farts like Dennis Conner still race as nostalgic activities. Foils are coming to racing--at least for those who buy boats just to race. But they might turn out to change the world of passage-making one of these days... Going 7 knots can get really old after two weeks of seeing nothing but waves and clouds, you can't really out-run a storm at that speed.

Edited by - on

capelyddol
1st Mate

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USA
62 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2015 : 20:32:06

Yeh great, Dave. This one was only in San Francisco Bay.

I believe they're still looking for the picnic basket.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9017 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2015 : 08:54:38

Ya, lots of the earliest flying machines crashed, too.

Hang onto your picnic basket, Granny--[url="http://www.yachtingworld.com/blogs/toby-hodges-blog/gunboat-g4-the-first-flying-cruising-yacht-60719"]here they come[/url]...

Edited by - on

capelyddol
1st Mate

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USA
62 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2015 : 16:49:01

Huh, Granny, indeed!

Those old flying machines were made of canvas and string, not the latest technological (unbreakable?) carbon fiber. Anyway, where's the poetry gone? I can't see John Masefield getting all dewy eyed over this:

"I must go down to the seas again, to the lonely sea and the sky,
And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by,
And the wheel's kick and the wind's song and the white sail's shaking,
And a grey mist on the sea's face, and a grey dawn breaking."

I doubt he'd ever have gone near the sea again if he'd seen that abomination.

Now this is poetry:

I'd give my last remaining eye-tooth to own that beauty (and have the income to run it!), but I'd not even swop the dog for one of those G4s.

Speed is all very well, but not at the expense of charm, character, grace, poetry-in-motion - all those attributes that make a fine sailing yacht so much more than just a few lumps of wood, or fiberglass, (or even carbon fiber!).

I guess Granny'll just keep his old Catalina 25. At least I've grown to love her.

Edited by - capelyddol on 01/07/2015 16:51:41

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5853 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2015 : 17:33:57

It doesn't have to be an either/or proposition. It's possible to love the poetry of the old, traditional designs, and still be thrilled by the hydrofoil catamarans of the 2013 America's Cup.

Last summer, Witchcraft, a 1903 racing yacht raced with our racing fleet, and, as I recall, it was the last boat to finish the race. It wasn't only beaten by modern racers, but it was beaten across the finish line by the Catalina 27s. Nevertheless, it was far and away the most beautiful boat on the race course. In it's day, it was state-of-the art. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHO5y-PD2ns

Edited by - Steve Milby on 01/07/2015 17:52:05

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9017 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2015 : 21:55:03

...and from time to time, you can still see the spectacular big Js race (or pretend to race) at Newport and a few other locations. Old schooners race frequently at Martha's Vineyard and other venues... The classic Shields class often holds its national championships here in Mystic... There are other classic spectacles around the USA, Antigua, and elsewhere.

But as much as I appreciate all of the above, I'm with Steve--I was captivated by the amazing feats of both engineering and sailing on SF Bay last summer. Yes, the money involved was obscene... Yes, the Js are more beautiful (but involved even more obscene money)... But who should stop Larry Ellison, or Harold Vanderbilt, or Thomas Lipton from opening their wallets to stretch the envelope, especially when they create spectacles like that? If need be, think of it as another sport, like maybe hockey on water.

The first time I saw a 747 back in the '70s, I was blown away to see it lift off the runway. I had something of the same reaction seeing a 72' sailing yacht getting up on a little curved dagger and almost reach the top speed of my 225 hp, 27' $+!nkp*+, and I couldn't have kept up in that SF Bay chop!

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 01/10/2015 : 12:03:11

Beauty is always in the eye of the beholder and often tied to function. I love classic lines, but I also enjoy the kick of a rocket. The same in cars - good performance and elegant lines of Morgans and Jaguar roadsters and and my wife"s crazy Subaru WRX. I loved her 2008 WRX, but the 2015, sedan only since they d/c'ed the hatchback in the WRX, is dramatically better.

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