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C25BC
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Canada
200 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/06/2017 : 13:40:28

So I've learned if I have any questions on this site to use the search option first and just about every question has been covered over the years , a very valuable store of information I would say . And for the people who have been on this site for years it must get quite repetitive . That being said , I'm having a rough time figuring out how to get in and out of my slip at the marina smoothly and without considerable embarrassment when the docks full ,my C22 just sort of glided in and out , these boats seem to catch the wind broadside . My slip is a double slip one side is usually empty thankfully and the wind blows at my stern when I'm I'm coming in nose first , it usually always blows in the same general direction so leaving I'm getting blown to the pilings as soon as I turn . So I'm going to try make Nauti -ducks dock omatic this weekend and and give that a try for coming in. I'm realizing leaving the slip I'm not using enough power so I'm going to work on that and considering trying to back out of the fareway and turn when I have more room it's not far. Has anyone tried these tactics ?

Angus
S.V.Tempus
#4748
1984 Catalina 25 SK/SR/Trad.

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2017 : 14:26:56

One question: Do you have your SK up or down when going in and out? If it can be even part way down, it should help you track a lot better.

I have a very vague picture of your situation, but I'll mention one tactic that might help: Often the worst problem develops when you're transitioning from reverse to forward, are momentarily stationary with no control from the rudder, and the wind is moving the bow to a direction you don't want to go... I'll presume you're turning the engine to help overcome the stationary issue.

But if that still leaves you in a tight spot, consider backing down the fairway instead of trying to change direction to go forward. Then when you get to an intersection with more room, or open water, you can swing the stern around, shift, and go. Just be ready to keep a good grip on the tiller--it will want to go hard-over the whole time. Once you're under way in reverse, the rudder can do the steering, but remember also that hard over, the rudder "stalls" (becomes more of a brake than a rudder) and steering is mostly lost.

If anyone says you look silly, they just labelled themselves a "non-seaman!"

Another, more intuitive idea (which you may have tried) is when you make the turn while backing out, before shifting to "F", swing the stern around past parallel to the fairway so the wind will push the bow back as you gain some way going forward, and you might start moving with the bow still slightly toward the wind that is trying to push you to leeward.

The "dock-o-matic" (a variation on a spring-line) is a good tool for entering the slip--pulling and holding you against the dock.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 07/06/2017 14:30:54

C25BC
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Canada
200 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2017 : 14:42:18

I always leave the swing keel down , I figure less stress on mechanism . Is that a good idea ?
I'm at the lake tomorrow and am planning on just doing docking drills for awhile . The first time I docked it was perfect Feb. 18, pouring rain and the water flat calm ,no wind .

Angus
S.V.Tempus
#4748
1984 Catalina 25 SK/SR/Trad.

dasreboot
Admiral

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803 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2017 : 15:45:21

backing into wind is always easier. sometimes im heavy crosswinds ill rig a line from the bow - around a piling - and back to me. it keeps the bow from falling off. when im pointed the right way , i just let it go and gather it back up.

Todd Lewis
Eowyn 87 TR/WK C25 #5656
ARWEN 84 TR/SK C25 #4031
www.mainsailsailingschool.com

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2017 : 16:06:59

The slip choice matters when entering. For instance if you make a left to enter your slip, It is beneficial to have the finger on your starboard side. The boat will slide toward the finger. It is more difficult with the finger on your port side because the boat will then be slipping away from the finger. I use a simple dock line to dock. I put the loop end over the winch and as I come in I reach out and drop the line over the first cleat on the dock then stop the forward momentum with that. This also draws the boat to the dock. It's a variation on the dock o matic.I also put the engine in neutral for the last 30ft or so and coast into the slip. This varies depending on wind and direction.All my dock lines are tied and left on the dock so the only need to be dropped onto the cleats on the boat. No lines to tie or adjust. Same for the fenders, they are tied to the dock. No need to deploy fenders.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

C25BC
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Canada
200 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2017 : 16:13:36

I make a left and dock to port , I'm working on a better slip but it's the worst time of year .

Angus
S.V.Tempus
#4748
1984 Catalina 25 SK/SR/Trad.

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5851 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2017 : 16:30:39

Keeping the swing keel down will help. The keel's purpose is to create lateral resistance, to prevent the boat from slipping sideways.

We all tend to think we have to use the motor to get into and out of our slip, but that's not so. I keep my Cal 25 backed into a slip where the fairway is less than 25' wide. The fairway is so narrow that you can't accelerate up to enough speed to gain steerageway without ramming the boat across the fairway, and, when leaving the slip bow-first you can't turn the boat sharply enough to avoid hitting the boat across the fairway.

When I leave the slip, I have the motor running in neutral and idling. I either push it into the fairway by pushing against a piling, or I put it in forward gear at idle. If I have crew, he's stationed on the bow with a boat hook. He hooks the bow pulpit of the boat across the fairway from mine, pushes the bow of my boat past that boat's bow, and, when it's clear, I open the throttle and drive out the fairway.

When returning to my slip, I shut off the engine when about 3-4 boat lengths from my slip, coast slowly past my slip, use a boat hook to grab the bow pulpit of the boat in the slip next to mine, stop my boat, use the boat hook to pull it back, stern-first, into my slip.

Unless the wind is blowing fairly hard and in the wrong direction, I can usually get it out by myself. If the wind is blowing hard, I can usually wait a few minutes for a lull in the wind, and get it out then.

I've never had difficulty getting it into the slip alone.

A small outboard engine with a small prop doesn't have much stopping power in reverse, when you enter a slip bow-first with wind at your back. A better solution is to back into the slip. With a little practice you'll usually find that it's just as easy to back in as it is to go in bow-first, and it's much easier to get out of the slip.

So, if you have a difficult docking situation, open your mind to all the alternative solutions. Try backing in instead of going in bow-first, or, go in bow-first instead of backing in. Use the method that works the best. Try manipulating the boat into the slip using boat hooks. The staff at my marina launch big boats and maneuver them up and down a fairway and into their slip without using the engine at all, by using boat hooks, pushing the boat from one piling to the next, and then maneuvering them into the slip with boat hooks.

If wind is a problem, wait for a lull, and be ready to go as soon as one happens.

Practice using the throttle on your engine to increase and decrease power. You need to be able to apply just the right amount of power with confidence. If your throttle doesn't work smoothly, lubricate it or repair it.

You have correctly surmised that running the engine slowly and carefully is often the wrong thing to do. Often you need to open the throttle a bit and boldly use some power to get the boat moving. The faster the boat is moving forward, the more resistant it is to drifting sideways.

You can also turn the boat very sharply by turning both the engine and the rudder, together.

Remember that your boat doesn't work like your car. You can back your car out of a parking space just far enough to turn the wheels and clear the back bumper of the car next to you. Your car will follow in the direction that your front wheels are turned. Your boat doesn't have front wheels. It turns from the rear, not from the front. The stern generally moves around behind the bow and pushes the bow in the direction you want to go. You have to back much farther out of your slip, give it some throttle, and get the boat moving fast enough to gain steerageway. When backing out of a slip, I usually back as far across any given fairway as I can before putting the engine in forward gear and turning down the fairway.

Finally, whenever you are about to enter or leave your slip, always check both the direction and strength of the wind. Knowing those factors will allow you to adjust your plan so that you can cope with it's challenges.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 07/06/2017 : 17:31:08

My slip faces West, has full finger piers on both sides, the prevailing wind is from the SE, I exit the fairway going North, and my motor has pretty much zero reverse.

When I get ready to leave my slip I stand on the dock with the motor idling in neutral. I push the boat about 2/3 of the way out of the slip as fast as possible, jump on board mid-ship, scurry to the cockpit, drop the motor in reverse, steer the motor and rudder so the stern of the boat goes to port when looking forward. When I get most of the way across the fairway, I turn the motor and tiller as far as possible in the same direction so the boat will turn right as I get forward motion, and give it full throttle. Once I get steerage I come off the throttle enough to maintain 2 to 3 knots so I don't have any wake.

Coming back in to dock I'm heading South along the fairway, I try to maintain approx 2 knots and stay to the right of the fairway as close to the dock as possible, (maybe 6' off the end of the dock), depending on how hard the wind is, when I get approx. 2 to maybe 3 slips from my dock I go to neutral, as I near my dock I start turning into it so that I maintain a smooth arc. This method scrubs off almost all the forward momentum just as you get into the slip. As the stern comes past the port side dock line at the end of the finger pier I grab the line off the dock and slip it over the forward side of the port winch and pull on it. This stops what little forward momentum is left and also pulls the bow to port and up against the dock. I then drop the end of the dock line over the port cleat, scurry onto the dock and grab and attach the port side forward line. Later I center the boat in the slip with dock lines on the starboard side.

I used to share a double slip with another boat. The two slips combined were 18' wide meaning I had about 2 - 3 feet between my boat and the boat next to me. Luckily it was in the inner harbor and was well protected from the wind. Didn't matter, I bumped the boat next to me more than once although with almost no speed so it was more about leaving a rub rail mark on both boats. I got some from him as well.

So long story short, it's like the space shuttle re-entering the atmosphere, it's all in learning about "energy management" with a little wind thrown in to make things exciting.

Association Member

GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

Edited by - GaryB on 07/06/2017 17:34:44

islander
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Response Posted - 07/06/2017 : 17:49:00

Gee Steve, What happens when the boat you keep hooking onto isn't there? Also if I owned that boat and saw this I think we would be having some words..

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

islander
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Response Posted - 07/06/2017 : 18:04:10

Angus, Is it possible to go past your slip then turn around and approach it from the other direction? You then make a right turn and your finger will be on the port side and the boat will be slipping towards the finger.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5851 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2017 : 18:12:34

quote:
Originally posted by islander

Gee Steve, What happens when the boat you keep hooking onto isn't there? Also if I owned that boat and saw this I think we would be having some words..

If the boat isn't there, I catch a piling, or the sissy lines that stretch between the pilings. It happens frequently and there's always a way to get into the slip.

There's no reason for anyone to get upset about hooking their pulpit with a boat hook. It's the method that we all have to use to get in and out of that marina. It doesn't hurt the boats. The marina is located very near Annapolis harbor. It's designed mostly for small boats, with absolute minimum room to maneuver.

When I first came to the Chesapeake Bay, it startled me to hear the marina staff hook onto my bow pulpit to move a boat around, but now that I understand that they're just doing their jobs and that it doesn't hurt anything, it doesn't bother me.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Bladeswell
Captain

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490 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2017 : 20:46:15

Hi Guys,

I am learning a lot from this post. Thanks. While I have figured out how to put her back into her slip while almost never so much as bumping one of the fingers, all of my difficulties are about getting her out of her slip. After several tries, it seems best for me to engage reverse and stay at idle speed then just before she is straight in the fairway I engage forward gear and steer for the center of the fairway. Putting her back in, I maintain idle speed until 3-4 slips away from mine then go into neutral and coast right into her slip. when she is about half way in, I engage reverse gear and only enough throttle to bring her to a full stop.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

C25BC
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Response Posted - 07/06/2017 : 21:06:46

quote:
Originally posted by islander

Angus, Is it possible to go past your slip then turn around and approach it from the other direction? You then make a right turn and your finger will be on the port side and the boat will be slipping towards the finger.

that is a excellent suggestion but won't work in my situation , if I can get a different slip in the future it may apply. September my choices of location increases

Angus
S.V.Tempus
#4748
1984 Catalina 25 SK/SR/Trad.

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2017 : 21:48:54

quote:
Originally posted by islander

Angus, Is it possible to go past your slip then turn around and approach it from the other direction?

I often do that with my $+!nkp*+, which slips and slides a lot more than any of my sailboats did. When the wind and/or the tidal current is from the starboard side, and my finger dock is to port (bow in), I turn around so I'm going into the wind/current and as I turn into the slip, let the boat be pushed against the finger. But I have no docks or boats opposite my slip.

There is no end of dynamics and techniques!

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2017 : 22:18:16

You can also intermittently "goose" the engine. Crank the throttle way up when you're trying to steer the boat, then go back to idle when you've got the steerage you want. If you lose steerage, "goose" it again.

Goosing can be embarrassing too, but its another way to get the job done.

Seth
"Outlier" 1987 Catalina 25 SR/SK/Traditional Interior #5541
"Zoo" 1977 Morgan Out Island 30
"Nomad" 1980 Prindle 16
"Lost" 1988 Catalina Capri 14.2 (sold - yay!)
"Marine Tex 1" Unknown Origin POS 8' Fiberglass Dinghy
https://whichsailboat.com/2014/07/27/catalina-25-review/

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2017 : 05:40:28

"Goosing" the throttle can help minimize the "prop-walk" effect--when the motor is idling. Prop-walk is something that can exasperate someone around a dock if they don't realize it's happening. Essentially, in forward gear, the prop tries to push the stern to starboard (as well as forward), turning the boat to port. In reverse, it pulls the stern to port, turning the boat to port. This effect is most pronounced when the boat is stationary, moving very slowly, or moving in the opposite direction of the gear you're in.

Once you "get it", you can use prop-walk to advantage when maneuvering--for example, in forward gear at low or no speed, you'll find you can turn sharper to port than to starboard, and using reverse, you can pull the stern more easily into a dock on your port side than on your starboard side. Turning the outboard can counter prop-walk to an extent, and it dissipates as the boat moves faster, but in close maneuvering it will always be a factor--particularly during the moment you goose the motor.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 07/07/2017 05:47:02

Voyager
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Response Posted - 07/07/2017 : 07:14:21

Wow, as I was reading this post this morning, I was surprised that it took 13 posts before anybody mentioned anything about prop walk! Dave of course.
That's been the secret to my success with docking: how, when and whether to use prop walk to control the yaw of the boat.
Now I have it easy - I'm on a floating dock adjacent to the fairway in a protected harbor with some wind, but no current or wave action. In the past I was on a broad tidal river with wind, chop and alternating currents (sometimes opposed me into the dock, other times pushed me into the dock) with about 2kts of current. That's where I cut my teeth, so the ability to swing the boat using prop walk or using reverse to prevent crashing into the end of the slip was essential. The Dock-O-Matic was a good tool also.
So when you're practicing docking, also spend time understanding prop walk as well. You'll be glad you did.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Edited by - Voyager on 07/07/2017 07:15:49

dasreboot
Admiral

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803 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2017 : 09:30:09

my outboard being vertical does not seem to suffer from prop walk. at least not anything like the inboard boats ive sailed on. of course prop walk is a non issue when you are backing and using the outboard to turn.

Todd Lewis
Eowyn 87 TR/WK C25 #5656
ARWEN 84 TR/SK C25 #4031
www.mainsailsailingschool.com

C25BC
Navigator

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Canada
200 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2017 : 09:41:52

Thanks for the input , I'm off to the lake in a couple hours , it will be a windy afternoon as usual , but should be quieter then tomorrow.ill make some practice runs then out for a sail .

Angus
S.V.Tempus
#4748
1984 Catalina 25 SK/SR/Trad.

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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4275 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2017 : 16:30:20

quote:
Originally posted by Stinkpotter

quote:
Originally posted by islander

Angus, Is it possible to go past your slip then turn around and approach it from the other direction?
I often do that with my $+!nkp*+, which slips and slides a lot more than any of my sailboats did. When the wind and/or the tidal current is from the starboard side, and my finger dock is to port (bow in), I turn around so I'm going into the wind/current and as I turn into the slip, let the boat be pushed against the finger. But I have no docks or boats opposite my slip.

There is no end of dynamics and techniques!

Time for a 2nd motor or a set of thrusters!

Association Member

GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

C25BC
Navigator

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Canada
200 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2017 : 22:03:12

Absolutely hammered by the wind today , trying again tomorrow.

Angus
S.V.Tempus
#4748
1984 Catalina 25 SK/SR/Trad.

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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3312 Posts

Response Posted - 07/08/2017 : 08:01:40

When I turned to enter my slip I was port beam on to the prevailing wind, so I had to aim at he next upwind slip and allow the wind to push me into mine. There were times when the wind was so strong that I had to go to the end of the channel, do a quick 180 and dock side on to the clubhouse deck and wait for the wind to drop.
It always seemed that if I made a perfect "dead stick" landing into the slip nobody was watching. If I completely botched it and had to make 2 or 3 attempts then the whole yacht club was watching making rude comments...

Derek Crawford
Chief Measurer C25-250 2008
Previous owner of "This Side UP"
1981 C-25 TR/FK #2262 Used to have an '89 C22 #9483, "Downsized"
San Antonio, Texas

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 07/08/2017 : 08:20:01

quote:
Originally posted by Derek Crawford

...If I completely botched it and had to make 2 or 3 attempts then the whole yacht club was watching making rude comments...

...and you got even with them all on the racecourse the next day!

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 07/08/2017 : 10:16:58

quote:
Originally posted by GaryB

Time for a 2nd motor or a set of thrusters!

Twin screws, twin maintenance bills! Bow thruster = two big holes in the boat below the waterline. I'll make do.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 07/08/2017 10:17:54

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 07/08/2017 : 19:35:30

quote:
Originally posted by Derek Crawford

When I turned to enter my slip I was port beam on to the prevailing wind, so I had to aim at he next upwind slip and allow the wind to push me into mine. There were times when the wind was so strong that I had to go to the end of the channel, do a quick 180 and dock side on to the clubhouse deck and wait for the wind to drop.
It always seemed that if I made a perfect "dead stick" landing into the slip nobody was watching. If I completely botched it and had to make 2 or 3 attempts then the whole yacht club was watching making rude comments...

Yeah but with the Hydro Hoist all you had to do was get the bow between the bunks and that would help guide you in.

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GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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4275 Posts

Response Posted - 07/08/2017 : 19:39:11

quote:
Originally posted by Stinkpotter

quote:
Originally posted by GaryB

Time for a 2nd motor or a set of thrusters!
Twin screws, twin maintenance bills! Bow thruster = two big holes in the boat below the waterline. I'll make do.

Or twice as much life from the motors. Just shut one motor down and tilt it up when your out running around. When you get back to the dock, drop it down, start, and dock! Nothing to it.

And seriously, what could go wrong with a bow thruster installation!

Association Member

GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

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