Catalina - Capri - 25s International Assocaition Logo(2006)  
Assn Members Area · Join
Association Forum
Association Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Forum Users | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums
 Catalina 25 Specific Forum
 Using the A-frame
 New Topic  Topic Locked
 Printer Friendly
Previous Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 2

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
5232 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2017 :  15:45:48  Show Profile
So it's Spring again here in New England a day or two after our April Fools Day snowstorm. That said it's now officially boat fixin season again.
I want to build my own A-Frame for dropping the mast on Passage. Last time, Scott Islander graciously offered both his help and his equipment, for which I am forever grateful.
I have two 8 foot 2x4s that are about a foot shy of the distance between the forward chain plate and the forestay. I can add a 2 foot extension piece to the A-Frame which will make it rigid or I can purchase a pair of 10 foot 2x4s. Does it matter at all?
I want to be sure that as the mast is going down that the A-Frame doesn't snap in half.
Ideas?

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT
Go to Top of Page

islander
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3993 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2017 :  16:20:07  Show Profile
Bruce, My A frame that you used is 8'4" and does fall a little short but you saw for yourself that it really doesn't matter. Actually it helps once the mast is down and you go to reach up to disconnect it. I think at the time I told you the reasons why I like the 2x4. First they are strong and don't bend as you saw and second that they don't Mar the boat when you are putting it on the boat and hooking it up. Also remember it is a shorter distance from the forward lower chain plates then from the mast.

Edited by - islander on 04/02/2017 16:21:21
Go to Top of Page

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2017 :  23:21:59  Show Profile
My a-frame was shorter than the distance to the forestay. When I constructed the first one, it almost reached the chainplate, however, because of the low bridge I had to deal with, I shortened it.

Currently anchored out in St Pete Beach and using my phone, but if you search some of my other posts on the topic, I have the measurement. Anyway, it will still work with less than the full length.

Davy J


2005 Gemini 105Mc
PO 1987 C25 #5509 SR/SK
Tampa Bay
Go to Top of Page

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

1519 Posts

Response Posted - 04/04/2017 :  07:57:16  Show Profile
I built an A-frame of two 12 ft 2x4s with 1/2 incho holes at both ends. The A-frame bases were attached simply by heavy wires to the chain plates.

It gave good lateral stability until the mast was about 3/4 of the way down, at which point I could catch the mast and guide it into the crutch that was resting on the cockpit sole and tied to the pushpit at the transom. I felt this was much simpler than supporting the crutch by the gudgeons for this temporary job, since I did not have to remove the rudder.

JohnP
1978 C25 SR/FK "Gypsy"
Mill Creek off the Magothy River, Chesapeake Bay
Port Captain, northern Chesapeake Bay
Go to Top of Page

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
5232 Posts

Response Posted - 04/05/2017 :  05:54:04  Show Profile
JohnP
12' boards would definitely do it, so a few questions:
• Did you connect the board ends to the forward chainplates (forward lower shrouds) or the upper shroud chainplates (the ones parallel with the mast)?
• How did you set up the forward end of the A-Frame? Just run a long bolt through the holes and connect some tangs to the.bolt as attachment points for the forestay and the mainsheet?
• How tall was your crutch in the stern of the boat? How high above the transom did you catch the mast? I'm thinking 6-8 feet. Since the transom leans backward, how did you keep the crutch vertical?
• How unstable was the mast at that point? Since you mentioned it swayed somewhat on the way down?
Go to Top of Page

Sailynn
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
178 Posts

Response Posted - 04/05/2017 :  09:15:04  Show Profile
I would make sure you use a hardwood and not pine or better yet galv. elec. conduit like shown in the tech. manual IMHO. On more than one occasion I have seen wood shatter into little shards flying like missles. I was just an observer so I can't say if it was operator error or use of wood instead of conduit.

Lynn Buchanan
1988 C25 SR/WK #5777
Sailynn
Nevada City, CA
Go to Top of Page

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

1519 Posts

Response Posted - 04/05/2017 :  09:31:01  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Voyager

JohnP
12' boards would definitely do it, so a few questions:
• Did you connect the board ends to the forward chainplates (forward lower shrouds) or the upper shroud chainplates (the ones parallel with the mast)?
- Forward lower shroud chainplates. The forward lower shrouds were detached, and the upper shrouds were loosened 8 turns, I seem to remember. The mast step bolt was loosened a lot, and when the mast tips aft, the mast first becomes raised by about half of its own width while rocking back. The upper shrouds need to be loose enough to account for this small rise.

• How did you set up the forward end of the A-Frame? Just run a long bolt through the holes and connect some tangs to the.bolt as attachment points for the forestay and the mainsheet?
- 3/4" holes joined by a 6" carriage bolt with 2 carabiners between the 2x4 boards - one carabiner for the line led through the turning block at the stem and back to the cockpit, and one carabiner for the adjustable line (main sheet) attached to the secured jib halyard from the mast head. When raising the mast again, I first tension the mainsheet with one hand while standing in the cockpit and lifing the mast up as far as I can with the other hand. This gets the mast starting to be tilted upward without applying enormous force to the lifting/dropping line that runs to the stem. Then with the mainsheet fiddle block secured, the mast can be lifted all the way using the lifting line.

It is obvious when using this setup that the A-frame itself starts by lying a little bit above the foredeck, and it is raised as the mast is dropped. It ends up vertical when dropping the mast. Raising the mast lowers the A-frame, since the jib halyard is attached to it at a fixed length, and the mainsheet is tensioned and fixed.

• How tall was your crutch in the stern of the boat? How high above the transom did you catch the mast? I'm thinking 6-8 feet. Since the transom leans backward, how did you keep the crutch vertical?
- I think the crutch is about 6' or 7' tall, just enough to keep the mast roughly horizontal. I used a 2x4 with a roller on top made out of two 6" long 1"x2" boards on the left and right sides with a 2" PVC pipe section and a carriage bolt between them. It does not roll very well, but the mast can slide easily along the smooth PVC surface.
- I think I caught the mast while slowly releasing the line from the bow by straddling both cockpit benches and reaching up to 8' or so.
- The crutch was simply tied left and right to the pushpit and tied against the stern rail. It tilted a bit aft, but that's not important for this temporary function.

• How unstable was the mast at that point? Since you mentioned it swayed somewhat on the way down?
- It was windy (5 kt) in the marina one time, and the mast blew downwind as it was lowered. I stopped it halfway down and it swung back aboard. No problem! The 12' A-frame can let the mast swing to either side, but it cannot go far, and it will swing back, unless the boat itself heels. To swing it back, you can lean on the opposite gunwale for a moment.

- I should mention that I taped the upper shrouds and aft lower shrouds to the lifelines on port and starboard using blue painter's tape, so that the cables would not bend and become damaged at the chain plates when the mast is lowered. This also prevents kinking when the mast is raised again.

- I found a picture of the crutch:



JohnP
1978 C25 SR/FK "Gypsy"
Mill Creek off the Magothy River, Chesapeake Bay
Port Captain, northern Chesapeake Bay

Edited by - JohnP on 04/05/2017 10:13:59
Go to Top of Page

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

1519 Posts

Response Posted - 04/05/2017 :  11:49:05  Show Profile
I found 5 photos that I took the first time that I dropped the mast. At the bottom are 3 schematic diagrams drawn to scale. I have added comments above the last photo and the diagrams that explain how I set up the A-frame differently the next time I dropped the mast. So I would recommend that the text within the diagrams should not be followed precisely.

Heavy wire attachment of the A-frame to the chain plate:


Top of A-frame with carriage bolt and 2 carabiners:


Jib halyard goes up from the A-frame to the mast head, and the boom vang goes down from the A-frame to the dropping/raising line through the turning block at the bow and aft to the cockpit.


Note that on the day of the photo I attached the jib halyard to the A-frame, then the boom vang also attached to the A-frame and led down to the turning block at the bow which consists of the mainsheet pulled all the way tight with the running end extended back to the cockpit as the lifting/dropping line. The boom vang shown here is fully extended so that with the mast lowered the boom vang can be tensioned to raise the mast up off the crutch and begin the lifting process. I attached another 10' line to the bitter end of the boom vang so that it could be reached while the A-frame was raised after dropping the mast.


Lifting/dropping line runs through the main halyard rope clutch. For dropping the mast, I opened the clutch and I used 2 wraps around the winch to take the pressure off the line I released slowly. For raising the mast later, I closed the main halyard clutch and pulled as slowly as I chose. The clutch held the mast at any angle while going up.


Schematic drawings


The comments in this diagram do not reflect what I think now. The diagram shows the use of the boom vang below the A-frame, so the A-frame starts out at an angle up off the foredeck due to the extended boom vang. This suggests that it would be easier to use the mainsheet and its blocks above the A-frame. Setting up the mainsheet between the A-frame and the jib halyard allows the A-frame to start lower on the foredeck, since the mainsheet is extended as much as possible at the beginning before dropping the mast.



The description in the diagram is not optimal. The next time I dropped that mast I placed the fully extended mainsheet rig between the jib halyard and the A-frame (which would be on the left diagram below), and used a 3/8" 30 foot line for the lifting/dropping line that ran from the A-frame through a turning block at the bow back to the cabin-top rope clutch to where I stood in the cockpit.


I realize there are many possible setups to accomplish the feat of dropping the mast. If I had 2 helpers, I would strongly prefer doing the whole thing by hand with no A-frame. The transport, setup, use, breakdown, and transport back home of the A-frame can be replaced by a much simpler manual process. The C25 SR mast weighs only about 35 lbs. or so, I think.

Happy sailing!


JohnP
1978 C25 SR/FK "Gypsy"
Mill Creek off the Magothy River, Chesapeake Bay
Port Captain, northern Chesapeake Bay
Go to Top of Page

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4275 Posts

Response Posted - 04/05/2017 :  17:18:23  Show Profile
The trick when lowering it is once it's over the "hump" wait for a lull in the wind and then drop it quickly to a point just above the crutch.

When it's just above the top of the crutch you can reach up and keep it from swaying while easing it down onto the crutch. If you do it right it shouldn't take more than 3 - 5 seconds to get it down to where you can grab it. Doesn't give it much time to sway if you do it quickly.


Association Member

GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX
Go to Top of Page

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
5232 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2017 :  17:33:20  Show Profile
Like they say, "It's all in the prep. Once you're set up it's amazing how quickly it gets done!"

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 2 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Previous Page
 New Topic  Topic Locked
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Association Forum © since 1999 Catalina Capri 25s International Association Go To Top Of Page
Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.06
Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.