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Today's boating discovery of the day; need motor.…

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michael.anda
1st Mate

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Response Posted - 05/07/2016 : 05:14:13

Thanks. I'm into convenience. Is there any reason you can see that your configuration would work any differently on my C-25? I assume not, but to be clear here, are you saying that with the motor mount fully raised the 25" shaft model's prop will reach into the water? Or is there some intermediate position involved? I'm having trouble picturing this working with the motor mount all the way up, as you state. Do you HAVE to have your engine tilted for it to be out of the water?

michael.anda
1st Mate

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Response Posted - 05/07/2016 : 05:17:51

My boat will be on a boat lift, BTW. If that has any relevancy at some point here.

TCurran
Admiral

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588 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2016 : 08:04:49

"...but to be clear here, are you saying that with the motor mount fully raised the 25" shaft model's prop will reach into the water?" - Yes. I find that to be really convenient. Tilt the motor down, hit the electric start, back out of the slip, pop out the sails, kill the engine, tilt the motor up. No messing with the motor mount.

"Do you HAVE to have your engine tilted for it to be out of the water?" - Yes

Yes, I think it can work on your boat and being on a lift might make it easier to flush, if you can reach the motor with the boat up.

Everyone has to figure out what compromises they want to live with. I don't like hanging over the boat messing with the motor mount, especially when I'm single-handed or on a charter. Plus, it makes it easier to reach the throttle and gear shifter. I'll try and get some pics when Im out there later today.

Tom Curran
1981 Capri 25 Hull #101 "Dirty Debbie"
1988 Watkins 30
PAFB, FL

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2016 : 08:50:11

Different brackets will give you different positions up and down. When my Fulton was fully up and the X/L outboard down, the skeg was in the water but the prop wasn't down enough to push the boat or to draw cooling water. I might have been able to do what Tom describes at an intermediate position on the bracket. Sometimes, on short meanders when speed was of no concern, we just left the motor down while sailing--not much worse than a typical inboard auxiliary with a fixed prop. When it was time to douse the sails, I just touched the starter button. (When doing that, I didn't emphasize my "rights" as a sailing vessel, since it could look to some like I might be under power.)

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 05/07/2016 08:53:56

michael.anda
1st Mate

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Response Posted - 05/07/2016 : 09:38:54

Thanks again, Tom. Pics would be great. I do have a little time to decide. New fin keel C-25 will be ready in about 3-4 weeks. On the topic of motor brands the Tohatsu is generally presented as the motor of choice by most. One here mentioned getting faster performance from a Yamaha. I seem to recall (accuracy not a given) Stinkpotter asserting that performance was likely due to a prop difference. Any recall here, Stinkpotter? The Yamaha's extra weight doesn't appeal to me. How much time would a person spend under power as a daysailor? As a short term cruiser? I'm perhaps 200 yards from our drawbridge as the crow flys. A quarter mile, MAYBE, in terms of channel considerations. One mile gets me out to totally open water with good depth. Don't want to overthink or underthink this thing. Does coastal cruising entail a lot of motoring? I'd like to think of the Florida Keys up toward Tampa Bay as being my oyster. I'm located on Fort Myers Beach and haven't as much as learned to sail yet. Lord willing, I've got all the time in the world to learn.

TCurran
Admiral

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588 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2016 : 10:33:54

Motor up

Motor down

No worries, will tackle a few of your other ??? a little later (heading out for a sail)

Tom Curran
1981 Capri 25 Hull #101 "Dirty Debbie"
1988 Watkins 30
PAFB, FL

Edited by - TCurran on 05/07/2016 10:36:15

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2016 : 19:51:01

I don't remember the specific Yamaha conversation, but both Yamaha and Honda sell "high thrust" models that have larger, lower-pitch props designed for pushing and stopping heavy displacement hulls as opposed to small planing hulls. As I've said before, my high-thrust Honda stopped Passage as if she'd run into a pillow--dramatically different from the "standard" motor it replaced. The Tohatsu 9.8 comes with a general-purpose prop--that could be changed, but I don't recall whether anyone here has done it. Once under way, the standard prop will cruise at somewhat lower RPMs and probably get slightly better mileage. Around a dock, the high thrust prop maneuvers with more authority, especially starting and stopping. And it cruises just fine--my Honda 8 did 5-5.5 knots into chop at maybe 2/3 throttle at most, and more than that with any motor on a C-25 is a waste of gas and noise.

Coastal cruising..... Virtually every coastal cruiser I know will admit, if pressed, that when they're actually trying to get somewhere, they're under power 2/3 - 3/4 of the time. Either conditions aren't good or the wind is "on the nose"--meaning the tacking distance can be 50% greater than a reach. That can change your plans. So, it does depend somewhat on your expected activities with the boat.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 05/07/2016 19:55:54

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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1511 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2016 : 04:25:12

quote:
How much time would a person spend under power as a daysailor? As a short term cruiser?

Here is my experience with this. Day-sailing in Tampa Bay, cruising Tarpon Springs down to the Keys and Key West.

My marina is less than ten minutes from open water of Tampa Bay. Motor ten minutes out, sail all day, motor ten minutes back in.

When we have a destination, we will sail if possible, motor sail if needed and outright motor to the destination if there is no wind or the wind is "on the nose". Since we don't have the luxury of an open calendar, our cruising is usually packed into a long weekend, a week, and at most, two weeks.

We cruised from Tampa Bay to Key West. We were out 18 days. Four of those docked in Key West Bight Marina. The other 14 days we spent traveling from one location to another. We only had 5 days that we were able to sail without the motor. The other days we either motor sailed or were motoring on the GICW.

As far as the outboard choices go, you will probably not notice a difference between a Tohatsu, Mercury, Honda or Yamaha. You should probably pick one that has a close service network to your home. I've mentioned it before, but if I were choosing for a C25 again, I would pick the Mercury with the tiller mounted controls.

Davy J

2005 Gemini 105Mc
PO 1987 C25 #5509 SR/SK
Tampa Bay

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2016 : 20:24:02

quote:
Originally posted by Stinkpotter

Virtually every coastal cruiser I know will admit, if pressed, that when they're actually trying to get somewhere, they're under power 2/3 - 3/4 of the time...

I should add, "including me."

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

michael.anda
1st Mate

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60 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2016 : 21:35:00

Does this tillerless Suzuki float anyone's boat?

http://onlineoutboards.com/suzuki-9-9-hp-9-9btx-outboard-motor-4167.html

TCurran
Admiral

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588 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2016 : 04:40:28

quote:
Originally posted by michael.anda

Does this tillerless Suzuki float anyone's boat?

http://onlineoutboards.com/suzuki-9-9-hp-9-9btx-outboard-motor-4167.html

Personal choice, but I took the remote throttle/shifter off when I bought the Watkins. Just another place to hit your shins. I do know a fellow who swears by his.

To discuss your other questions:

I have the four-bladed "high thrust" prop on my motor, I'm not 100% sold on it, but do notice a difference when operating my buddies identical boat, only difference is the prop. He has the normal three-bladed factory prop. So...yeah, I guess I'd recommend the high thrust prop for our boats.

I do quite a bit of long weekend "cruising", I sail when I can, motor sail most of the time, and motor only when I have too. As Davy J said, if you're on a time limit, you have to burn fuel. This last trip we weren't, so whenever I could I reached back killed the motor and tilted it up. I think I was under sail ~50%, motor sail 40% and motor only 10% of the trip. But the winds were favorable for our route along the ICW. The trip along the ICW from Patrick AFB to Ft Pierce has a few narrows or areas of dead wind that you have to motor, so if you're wind lucky, you can sail quite a bit.

I don't have a convenient place to jump outside and I have enough offshore experience that I don't need to sail in the Atlantic to say I've done it. However, if it's make sense to do so, I have no issue taking my boat outside to miss the craziness of the ICW. My advice is to learn to sail and gain experience before heading out into the Gulf and trekking straight for Key West. We enjoy just going out for a sail in our part of the river and dropping the hook for the night, either by ourselves of part of a raft-up with two or thee other boats. You learn a lot from other boaters, what they bring (or don't bring), how their boats are set-up, etc. Plus the great learning experience during the bull$hitting time over a evening cocktail or two or three or four

Tom Curran
1981 Capri 25 Hull #101 "Dirty Debbie"
1988 Watkins 30
PAFB, FL

Edited by - TCurran on 05/09/2016 04:42:15

michael.anda
1st Mate

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60 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2016 : 18:40:51

Davy J, would you refresh my memory on why you like the Mercury's F-N-R throttle on the C-25? I will need to pay essentially a $500 premium for the feature vs. the Tohatsu. 10 HP Tohatsu (93lbs) without tilt is $2,210. Tohatsuu with tilt (108lbs), $2,770. 10 HP Mercury (114lbs) with tilt and tiller shift, $3,200. The Mercury has their Power Thrust feature, too. Worth the moula? $1,000 less gives me the basic Tohatsu. $2,850 gets me Stinkpotter's 8 HP Honda (113lbs). All models mentioned have 25" shafts.

F-N-R throttle appeals to me. Power tilt seems extra awesome.

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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1511 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2016 : 04:15:42

Keep in mind, the Mercury and the Tohatsu are the same motor. Tohatsu produces motors for themselves, Nissan and Mercury.

However, the shift lever on the Tohatsu is mounted on the left side of the motor and the throttle on the tiller, while on the Mercury the shift/throttle is incorporated on the tiller.

In easy docking situations the Tohatsu is fairly easy to operate. But if you have very tight docking/marina situations the Mercury allows you to put the boat in forward or reverse without having to flip the shift lever. It also allows you to keep your eyes on the task at hand as opposed to having to look at the shift lever.

My C25 originally had a 2-stroke Mercury with the shift/throttle tiller. I replaced it with a 4-stroke Tohatsu. I liked my Tohatsu, but I later wished I had spent the extra money and purchased a Mercury.

Also, I think I mentioned this when we were at Twin Dolphin Marina, But if not, I would seriously consider mounting the motor mount on the starboard side of the boat if it isn't there already. It just seems to me that having the motor on port side, with the tiller out on the port side, would make it more difficult to operate. Maybe someone who has that configuration will chime in and give their experience.

Davy J

2005 Gemini 105Mc
PO 1987 C25 #5509 SR/SK
Tampa Bay

michael.anda
1st Mate

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USA
60 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2016 : 10:22:41

My new boat has the starboard side motor mount. I think I'll probably bite the bullet and spend the extra $1,000 on tilt and Mercury F-N-R shifting. Thanks all for your input.

michael.anda
1st Mate

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USA
60 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2016 : 10:27:37

quote:
Originally posted by Tomas Kruska

If the lifting is the issue and you are just a lake cruiser, what about the Mecury/Nissan/Tohatsu 6HP SailPro?

Enough power with extra-long shaft and High Thrust Propeller (8.375" Dia. X 6.0" Pitch)

Will be sailing/motoring SW Florida coast and intercostal waterways.

michael.anda
1st Mate

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60 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2016 : 10:58:04

Just had me a bright idea. Why tilt when I can rely on my boat lift? I suspect the vast bulk of my boat use will end at my dock each day anyway. Please let me know if the occasional cruise I anticipate makes this cost saving measure shortsighted in your opinion.

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2016 : 14:04:18

You won't need to tilt the outboard if it's kept on a lift. You will need to figure out how to flush the motor though. Depending on the lift configuration that might be easy or difficult.

When you are out sailing, you will need to lift the outboard bracket and then tilt the motor, or vice versa. So you will already be back there to at least lift the motor mount. I'm not sure I see any value in the power tilt option.

Davy J

2005 Gemini 105Mc
PO 1987 C25 #5509 SR/SK
Tampa Bay

michael.anda
1st Mate

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USA
60 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2016 : 15:06:18

Yes, that just dawned on me earlier.

michael.anda
1st Mate

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60 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2016 : 16:35:21

Continuing with my due diligence, how big of a deal is the 12 amp,148 watt alternator on this 8 hp Honda when compared to the 12 amp, 79 watt 9.9 hp Mercury?

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3754 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2016 : 18:05:14

The only way to have 12A and 79 W is by having a little over 6 volts. Mercury probably produces 6V and is stepped up to 12V @6A. The actual output will be lower since we don't run the engine at max rpm. My Mercury is rated at 6 A @12V. W= AxV, officially P=IE. The Honda will charge faster since it has a stronger alternator than most of the rest of the industry, but it isn't an issue for me. Running an engine to charge a battery is pretty inefficient. Some might consider it important. 15 seconds of cranking the engine represents about 0.125 amp hours, about 6-8 or 12-15 minutes to recharge.

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

Edited by - Dave5041 on 05/10/2016 18:16:56

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