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Battery Size

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Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/21/2016 : 12:07:19

Hello Everyone,

Sense my boat has sat for about 3 and a half years unused, I'm going to assume that my batteries will have to be replaced. They are currently group 24s. I'm pretty sure that my boat has pretty typical power requirements with the one exception that it will have a 3 GPM fresh water pump and a automatic bilge pump for protection when I'm away. I was wondering if I should move up to group 27 batteries sense I will need to replace them anyway. I am also considering a 15 wat flexible solar panel to keep them charged up. Your thoughts and opinions will be appreciated. Thanks,

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

Edited by - Bladeswell on 02/21/2016 12:18:24

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3994 Posts

Response Posted - 02/21/2016 : 14:35:25

Not knowing how you plan on using the boat, When it comes to batteries its all about Amp Hours. Amp hours are like money in your bank. The more you have the more comfortable you will be and the longer they will provide power before going dead. My advise is to get the batteries with the most Amp Hours that you can afford and will fit in the space you have. For the C25 that usually will be sizes 24,27,or 31. The 31 will have the most Amp Hours but will also cost the most.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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5236 Posts

Response Posted - 02/21/2016 : 19:47:00

I agree with Scott Islander on this, money in the bank.
I moved up from a Group 24 to a Group 27, but the battery cover was only large enough for Group 24 and the larger battery wouldn't fit. Had to upgrade that too.
Regarding solar charger, 15W will take a lo-o-o-ong time to recharge one 90 AH battery.
Doing the math,
15W @ 19 VDC is approximately 0.8A. If you discharged your battery by 45AH (1/2-way), it would take ~60 hours to recharge.
For one, I'd recommend 30W or more. For two batteries, double up on the power.
Amazon had a nice 80W polycrystalline panel for about $120.00 two weeks ago when I checked. Don't buy an amorphous silicon type, very inefficient.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 02/21/2016 : 22:57:28

Amorphous is less efficient, but it isn't as troubled by shadows. I think the best solution is multiple crystalline panels for your desired output. Shading one cell on a panel can drop its output 75%. 2 or 3 panels in parallel will only suffer the drop on the shaded panel. You can also angle separate panels to follow the sun, but you don't get much when the Sun is beyond +/- 60� from directly over head (local noon) anyway.

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3994 Posts

Response Posted - 02/22/2016 : 08:13:09

If you have 2 batteries you can double the amp hours by connecting them in parallel. The voltage will stay the same. 2 100 amp hour batteries connected in parallel will give you 200 amp hours.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 02/22/2016 : 08:35:10

Thanks Guys,

My boat will primarily be used for day sails and and once or twice a month for a weekend trip to Catalina Island. Trogen's group 24s are rated at 85 amp hours and their group 27s at 105 amp hours. Sense I'm just about certain I will need new ones, I believe I might as well move up to the group 27s.I will plan on buying new battery boxes at the same time. As for the solor panel, I actually do want a slow charge rate sense I am a truck driver gone 7 to 10 days at a time.
So maybe by the time I get back to the boat it will be about 3/4 charged up.I just want to avoid over charging. I also plan on a 120 volt charger for use at the slip to top it off quickly if needed. Does this plan seem reasonable ? Thanks again and fair winds.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3994 Posts

Response Posted - 02/22/2016 : 12:04:15

I use a 10 watt solar panel that tops up my single group 31 (105amphr) battery but my engine also charges the battery. I can sail all day using a GPS plotter,Radio, Waterpump and depth sounder. The 15 min. ride in and 15min ride out of my marina and the solar panel keeps my battery fully charged and will be good to go on the next day if I go out. This combo for me means I don't need shore power or a charger. I rarely sail in the dark but on occasion I may stay out a little late and need to put on running lights coming in but usually the motor is on by then. A water pump doesn't really use much power just because its not on all the time. Maybe 5-10 seconds at a time. Your bigger power draw is from items that are on for extended times like cabin lights or running lights etc. Each piece of electrical devices will have somewhere on it just how much power it consumes in an hour. This will be either in Amps or Watts. If you add these items up you can get a good idea of how much power you are using in a hour. Changing to Led lights is a big help if you use the boat at night and conservation is the key to avoiding a dead battery surprise. You can also get a simple plug in voltage meter to monitor your battery voltage. They are inexpensive and will tell you in a glance how charged up your battery's are so you don't have to guess. I have one and it simply plugs into a cigarette lighter socket. I highly recommend a voltage meter. A charge controller will make sure you don't overcharge the batteries. Although they say you don't need one on a small solar panel, I like the added insurance.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 02/22/2016 12:37:26

Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 02/22/2016 : 17:48:43

Hello All,

Thanks Scott. Where can I get those nifty toys ? Maybe WM ? And do you feel the charge controller is necessary with the slow rate of charge I will be dealing with ? I have a 4 stroke 9.9 outboard and it does have a charging circuit. But not having used it yet, I have no idea how well it works. Thanks again.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3994 Posts

Response Posted - 02/22/2016 : 18:44:12

You can just google them and you will get plenty of places to buy them. The charge controller is nothing more than a regulator. It will control the voltage output of the solar panel depending on the batterys needs just like a regulator does in a car. It's not totally necessary on small panels because they are considered trickle chargers but like I said I have one just for the added insurance and a simple 7amp controller is cheap. You can spend more for a battery monitoring system with all the bells and whistles but having these 2 items is not expensive and will do the job.
Volt Meter http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000EVWDU0/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_1?pf_rd_p=1944687602&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B0002ISEQW&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1MPD9DATXVMV4CPW3CSM
Charge Controller
http://www.amazon.com/Sunforce-7-Amp-Charge-Controller/dp/B0006JO0XI

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 02/22/2016 18:52:14

Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 02/22/2016 : 19:18:20

Thanks again Scott, can't get much cheaper than that. And as you said, good insurance.
Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

Jan Briede
Navigator

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USA
162 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2016 : 07:39:16

Great to see this subject here. I am in the process to install a second battery. There is no room need the original battery. Am I OK placing the second battery elsewhere and how far can I put them apart? I am planning to install a selector switch to choose between battery 1 and 2 and/or use both, or should I just place them parallel as shown above?
Thanks guys.

Jan Briede
Beagle
1979 TR #1242 FK
L-Dinette
Yorktown, VA
Blog -- http://vanomad.blogspot.com/

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3994 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2016 : 08:45:57

Jan, we need a little more info. Is your battery compartment in the area on the starboard side aft of the settee and water tank? You should be able to fit 2 batteries in there if the batteries are positioned to face port to starboard. The batteries have to be wired in parallel as shown to maintain 12 volts. Adding a switch will isolate the batteries or combine them or disconnect them. You can put the 2 batteries as close together as you want and would be preferred so as not to have long cables connecting them together. This photo is my compartment. I could easily fit another battery in there by sliding the one aft. I might have to extend the plywood base though. The red and black wires go to the charge controller that is mounted outside below the teak strip. Thats my water pump mounted to the bulkhead.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 02/23/2016 08:52:20

Jan Briede
Navigator

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USA
162 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2016 : 12:10:36

Thanks Islander ... I seem to have the same setup, but one of the previous owners seems to have put is a complete galvanized water system in the boat and all the twists and turns of the pipes take up a tremendous amount of space. I think it is time to remove that and adopt a water system and pump like what you have.
Thanks again.

Jan Briede
Beagle
1979 TR #1242 FK
L-Dinette
Yorktown, VA
Blog -- http://vanomad.blogspot.com/

islander
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3994 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2016 : 12:52:00

quote:
one of the previous owners seems to have put is a complete galvanized water system in the boat and all the twists and turns of the pipes take up a tremendous amount of space.

Amazing....Don't know what else to say..

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3369 Posts

Response Posted - 02/25/2016 : 04:52:26

I too have a solar panel system for a 2 battery setup. My original flooded (add water) batteries the PO had for at least a year or two and I had them for another 7 yrs before I decided to replace them with 2 AGM WM batteries. My solar panel system was installed around Oct '05 about a month or more after I purchased my Cat 25. It is a 20 Watt Kyocera with a Morningstar Pro15M controller purchased from Northern Arizona Wind and Sun. This was not the cheapest way to go but I like the controller (an overkill) with the digital readout and the controller has settings for flooded, AGM or Gel batteries. Flooded batteries are the most forgiving in charging them from various sources. AGMs and Gels, you do not have to periodically add water but they are more finicky as to the ideal charging voltage and rates with Gel batteries the most sensitive. So, there are tradeoffs with whatever batteries you purchase. If considering AGMs or Gels, then it is best to scrutinize your main charging methods if they have specific settings for the non-flooded battery types. We generally do not utilize the outboards all that long and so there charging mechanism is perhaps not so important. But a solar controller or an AC - DC charger, best to have those settings. In the case of my AC-DC charger, I do not use it often. Only the rare times I stay overnight at visiting another marina and hook up to the dockside electric. My Guest controller is relatively old and documentation does not indicate if suitable for AGMs/Gels. Since I noticed in WM that the new Guest controllers do state charging all 3 battery types, I called up Guest as to what the story is with my old charger. Their staff said that it should be okay but did not provide much addl assurance. But I rarely use it anyway and when I do, it is rare that it is for more than 6 hrs at a time.

My website has more details on my setup but here are some photos. The photos were taken quite some time ago and not with the 2006 Honda outboard which I purchased a couple of months or more after the photos were taken (PO had a 1994 Honda outboard). My new/old Honda is now pushing 10+ yrs old. I believe I now have had the AGMs on for about 3 years. They seem fine. The only difference I notice between them and the flooded batteries I use to own is that the AGMs seen to have a slightly lower resting voltage. My flooded batteries seem to be around 13.2V and as they got older that creeped down to about 12.9 and then slightly lower. The AGMs...believe they seem have been at around 12.9 for the past 3 years. The 20 Watt rigid panel has a 20"x14" footprint and puts out a max of 1.2 amps ideally. Reality is that depending on the angle of the sun, it puts out between .4 - .9 amps/hr over....~ 6 hr period during the day. (The solar panel mounts, I made myself from bar stock I ordered online.)

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

Edited by - OLarryR on 02/25/2016 05:01:05

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