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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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New Eyebrow Teak

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Kper
Captain

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USA
417 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/12/2016 : 04:51:02

The old eyebrow teak was getting pretty thin so I purchsed a pair from CD. When removing the old teak I discovered it was anchored the entire length with silicone rtv. Would Boat Caulk be a better choice? What can I expect should I ever have to remove them again? Should I anchor the entire length or would sealing the mount screws be sufficient? I figured with foot traffic it would be best to anchor the entire thing.

Kyle
'86 SR/SK/Dinette #5284 "Anodyne"
In the barn where we found her...

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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3993 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2016 : 08:28:13

I don't know why there would be silicone. Silicone just does not have any adhesive quality's and does nothing to help hold the brows on. If you want to add some strength to the brows so they don't get broken by foot traffic I would use a dab of 4200 every 3-4 inches and around the screw holes. 4200 unlike 5200 can be removed and has very good adhesion. IMO silicon has no use on a boat.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3474 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2016 : 09:30:50

<< IMO silicon has no use on a boat >>

really.. jesus people.....

Anyhoo... I've used silicone as a sealant on many surfaces for it's ability to seal without sticking over time. It degrades quite well such that it is easy to remove when you need to. I've used it laid down thick for trim on houses, especially in high exposure areas where we need to remove the bead before repainting and resealing.

I don't think I'd use it much above decks as it degrades so quickly relative to most other bedding compounds, but one example might be putting a bead inside and across the top of the eyebrow trim to keep water from getting behind the trim and possibly loosening it in a freeze, or the water making marks as it drips down from behind the trim. The next time I want to refinish the trim it would be easy to remove both the trim from the boat and the old silicone from the trim.

I've used silicon for all kinds of applications where I want to be able to remove it easily and put another fresh bead of silicone. Inside a sink lip is probably the most common application, the older pipe gasket material was a pain to work with, especially when cold.

Silicone is somewhat sticky when it first goes on but lets go and shrinks/hardens a little with time so again, I would not use it as a bedding compound for fittings on deck.

Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel

Edited by - redeye on 02/12/2016 09:34:10

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9014 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2016 : 10:38:03

I agree with Ray--the sealant was probably there to prevent water from getting behind the teak, causing degradation and stains. Life Caulk is a good choice there. My experience with silicone is that when removed or smeared, it leaves a film that is very difficult to remove completely, and it turns brown in sunlight. However, I used it to seal down around chainplate bolts that go through the deck, with a SS frame over the hole, because I believed in that application it would seal better and last longer. But what I believe ain't necessarily true...

BTW, a friend with a classic-style cutter with a fair amount of teak bought some fake teak eyebrow material from PlasTeak--looks great, no maintenance, and no degradation for as long as any of us are alive. I might replace my exterior handrails with theirs...

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 02/12/2016 10:44:18

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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3993 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2016 : 12:50:35

Not trying to start a war on the use of silicone but Kper is looking for an adhesive and silicon is not that.

quote:
Most silicones don't have much bond strength, particularly to fiberglass, and won't do much more than hold themselves together. The prudent boatbuilder won't use them for much more than a gasket material and will depend on mechanical fasteners for strength in part assembly. You can't sand or paint them; in fact they can contaminate a surface that might be painted or glassed, and their bond to raw wood is not very good.

quote:
Silicone is excellent for isolating dissimilar metals. It is not as strong in adhesive strength as polysulfide or polyurethane. Depending on compression from mechanical fasteners to maintain its grip, it�s more of a gasket material than a sealant, but is compatible with plastics. A big disadvantage is that silicone caulks leave a silicone-based residue behind that�s difficult to remove, to which nothing will adhere, including fresh silicone or paint (silicone is not paintable either, but polyurethane, polyether and polysulfide are).

Don Casey

quote:
Beyond portlights and specialized uses, you'll save yourself grief if you keep silicone sealant away from the deck and hull.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 02/12/2016 13:20:22

Kper
Captain

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USA
417 Posts

Response Posted - 02/13/2016 : 09:31:41

quote:
Originally posted by islander

Not trying to start a war on the use of silicone but Kper is looking for an adhesive and silicon is not that.

Ya, I've been battling old silicone elsewhere on the boat and didn't want to use it. I guess my main question was "what" and "how much" would folks recommend in place of the silicone? I have Boat Caulk on hand and have no experience with 4200 like Islander recommended - but I'm not opposed to using it.

Kyle
'86 SR/SK/Dinette #5284 "Anodyne"
In the barn where we found her...

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 02/13/2016 : 09:54:20

I would still stick to adequate mechanical fastening and polysulfide. It is kind of a pain to apply: it tends to get on everything and can take up to a week to cure. Clean up is a piece of cake once it cures. Apply it, install the piece until the bedding starts to squeeze out and go home. Armed with a plastic "razor blade" a few days later trim and peel off the excess and accidents (it will not leave a residue} and snug the screws down. It will easily last a decade, and 2 - 3 is more likely.

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3993 Posts

Response Posted - 02/13/2016 : 15:39:27

Kyle, maybe double up on the screws? If your Boat Caulk is an adhesive caulk then the added screws and some of the caulk should do it I would think.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

glivs
Admiral

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822 Posts

Response Posted - 02/13/2016 : 18:57:53

Yes to polysulfide. Tape the eyebrow and along the edges to minimize the mess and follow Dave B.'s lead about cleaning up.

Gerry & Leslie; Malletts Bay, VT
"Great Escape" 1989 C-25 SR/WK #5972

Kper
Captain

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USA
417 Posts

Response Posted - 02/14/2016 : 18:46:12

Polysulfide = Lifecaulk.
I have plenty of that. Thanks for the advice.

Kyle
'86 SR/SK/Dinette #5284 "Anodyne"
In the barn where we found her...

glivs
Admiral

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USA
822 Posts

Response Posted - 02/15/2016 : 07:31:44

You've probably long ago discovered (but just in case) that the big-box stores (Lowes, HD...) carry silicon and caulk remover that is gelcoat friendly. No miracles but works quite well.

Gerry & Leslie; Malletts Bay, VT
"Great Escape" 1989 C-25 SR/WK #5972

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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3993 Posts

Response Posted - 02/15/2016 : 10:34:33

LifeCaulk Is fine to use, Just make sure that the fiberglass is totally clean of any of the silicone residue or it won't stick. I suggested the 4200 quick cure just for the shorter cure time. LifeCaulk has an enormous cure time but as long as you don't care about that then it is probably a better product for wood to fiberglass.

quote:
LifeCaulk Cure Time: Tack-free: 24 hrs.; complete cure: 10�20 days

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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4382 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2016 : 20:01:08

When I removed my teak eyebrows for refinishing, I didn't use any sealant to reattach them. I thru-bolted them (using something like #4 tapered, oval head machine screws), placing o-rings between the eyebrow and cabin top. Next time I want to refinish them - I simply remove the nuts from inside the cabin and pull the eyebrows off. No mess to contend with.
Silicone is a giant PIA to clean up . . .

1989 C25 TR/WK, #5822
1973 McVay Minuet 19
1975 Jester 12
1981 C25 SR/SK, #2428
1981 C22 SR/SK,
Tanzer 16
Sunfish

"There is nothing, absolutely nothing half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats." Kenneth Grahame

Edited by - OJ on 02/20/2016 20:04:31

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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4382 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2016 : 20:04:36

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