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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Raising and lowering the mast

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Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/04/2015 : 06:13:14

Hello again,

I hope I'm not wearing out my welcome. And I truly appreciate your help and advice. So here goes. I and my gf are in our early 60s and most of the time will not have additional crew. So when I reach the point in my restoration of rig setup I would like to know which mast raising/lowering system will work best for me and my cercumstances.
Right now, I believe I have CDs mast up system. While I have not yet tried it, I have read the instructions and it doesn't sound very encouraging. So do you think I should be looking at a gin pole setup or the Huntington Rig.? Or are they the same thing.? It would be great if I were able to raise/lower solo on occasion. Thanks again and be safe all.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2015 : 06:45:24

A simple A frame works nicely and are easily made from tubing or 2x4's. This is Davy J's video on his. His was permanently attached to the boat because of all the low bridges he had to go under to get to the sailing grounds so his is the Cadillac of A frames. I made mine with 2x4's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r33VCObNroY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsLxujYRsMQ

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 08/04/2015 06:49:23

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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1511 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2015 : 06:52:03

I used EMT conduit. A vice, hack-saw, file and drill are all you need.

With an a-frame, you can perform it solo, however, it's easier with two.

Davy J

2005 Gemini 105Mc
PO 1987 C25 #5509 SR/SK
Tampa Bay

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2015 : 07:05:18

Here's another look at the fun I used to have to do...........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwrmxKPdaY4

Davy J

2005 Gemini 105Mc
PO 1987 C25 #5509 SR/SK
Tampa Bay

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2015 : 07:36:20

Do you plan on rigging, launching and retrieving each time you go sailing? If so, as an eleven-year member of the 60+ community, I'll suggest thinking about a slightly smaller "trailer sailer". Rigging and taking down a C-25 takes a lot out of your day (and energy), or even your weekend of sailing compared to, for example, a C-22. Alternatively, if you can find a place to store her on the trailer with the mast up, that would make a huge difference.

Just my opinion.....

(Note that Davy isn't de-rigging for trailering.)

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 08/04/2015 07:39:25

Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2015 : 08:21:42

Wow, quick responses today

Thanks everyone. Being she is a fin keel, I am told she will need to be launched by hoist. I anticipate sailing her twice to four times a month. Most likely for a weekend to 4 days at a time. So yes, I may come to regret my choice. But it is the boat I was after. Later, after I have acquired the proper training and experience, I plan on extended sails down the coast to southern Mexico.
And yes, she will live on her trailer most of the time. I will be shopping for a storage location where I can leave her "mast up" and ready to launch. But in southern California, that still means being on a waiting list for a considerable amount of time. I will take a good look at the "A Frame". It seems you are all in agreement on that so how could I go wrong. Thanks again.

Bladeswell. P.S. the trailer does have a 12ft extension.

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5851 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2015 : 08:34:33

quote:
Originally posted by Bladeswell

Being she is a fin keel, I am told she will need to be launched by hoist.

Not necessarily. To trailer-launch a fin keel boat, you need a ramp that has water that is deep enough to float the boat off the trailer, and you need a trailer with an extension that will allow you to back far enough down the ramp to get to deeper water, while still keeping your rear wheels on dry pavement. If your trailer is the swing-arm type, it will actually lower the boat as the arms swing back, and you can launch in slightly shallower water.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2015 : 10:57:59

Okay, after watching all of the videos I think I will like the A Frame system. This may seem a stupid question but is the actual raising/lowering being powered by the jib halyard..?

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2015 : 11:12:18

Almost forgot,
Yes, water depth and maybe steepness of the ramp would be critical for ramp launching. I don't know just now the ramp conditions near me. Long Beach, Alamitos, Newport, Oceanside. As I said, I have a trailer with a 12ft extension,I have no idea what a "swing arm type" is. I can tell you that my trailer is home made and if anything, rather over built. I don't see anything that would hinge, swing or in any other way move. Thanks again,
Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2015 : 11:24:21

quote:
This may seem a stupid question but is the actual raising/lowering being powered by the jib halyard..?

In my case, the "a-frame line", as we dubbed it, is a 3/8" line that goes through a block at the stem and then runs the length of the boat to the starboard winch. The connection between the mast and the a-frame is the actual forestay. If you have a furler that has a metal foil, that will complicate things.

The CDI furler has a plastic foil and is ideal for this type of abuse.

Davy J

2005 Gemini 105Mc
PO 1987 C25 #5509 SR/SK
Tampa Bay

Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2015 : 11:47:38

I do not have a furling head sail and plan to stay with hank on head sails. Thanks.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2015 : 05:24:36

An alternative to running a line back to the winch by the cockpit is to use your mainsheet. Attach the R/F or forestay to one side of the A frame then attach the mainsheet between the A frame and the stem fitting. The mainsheet is plenty long enough and since it is a block and tackle gives you a nice controlled lowering that you can stop at any time to make any adjustments. This will also keep your RF nice and straight and when the mast is down disconnect the RF from the A frame and tie it to the mast. This is how I do it. Here is some pics, Not as pretty as Davy's but gets the job done. Made with 2x4's and Davy's pipe hinges.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

rdthoms
Deckhand

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USA
15 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2015 : 08:28:32

StingySailor just had an extensive post with lots of options. He has a C22 but all should work on C25

http://stingysailor.com/2015/07/18/how-to-step-a-mast-single-handed-with-or-without-using-the-boom-as-a-gin-pole/

Richard
Huntsville, AL
1984 Catalina 25 SR/FK #4309

Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2015 : 16:55:29

Wow, exactly the information I needed. Thanks again everyone.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 09/02/2015 : 07:32:48

A final question for Davy J,

Hi again Davy, I was at Home Depot and was looking at EMT conduit. Did you use 1 inch or 3/4 inch and do you wish you had gone a size smaller or larger than you chose ? Also, the two smaller pieces that fit over the forward chainplates, are those made from pipe nipples ? Thanks again.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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1511 Posts

Response Posted - 09/02/2015 : 08:00:30

My a-frame was constructed from 3/4" EMT. The connections are made from short pieces of EMT, not pipe nipples. However, I had to elongate them slightly (squeezed in a vice) to fit over the chain plates. If you use 1" EMT you might not have that issue.

Davy J

2005 Gemini 105Mc
PO 1987 C25 #5509 SR/SK
Tampa Bay

Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 09/02/2015 : 08:16:53

Thanks Davy,

I hope mine will turn out as nice as yours. Great design.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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3992 Posts

Response Posted - 09/02/2015 : 09:31:20

If you go with EMT make sure it the thick wall not the thin. I used 3/4" by 4" pipe nipples. I bent them to fit with a hand sledge at the boat. Didn't have access to a vise in the boatyard.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 09/02/2015 09:41:14

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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1511 Posts

Response Posted - 09/02/2015 : 09:46:55

I know some have made an a-frame with thick wall conduit also known as Rigid conduit. However, I used 3/4" standard conduit, the thin stuff. It is more than strong enough for the task.

I don't think you would be able to form the rigid stuff like this:

Davy J

2005 Gemini 105Mc
PO 1987 C25 #5509 SR/SK
Tampa Bay

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 09/02/2015 : 10:48:39

Sorry Davy, I though you had used the thick wall. My bad.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

davidbloodworth
1st Mate

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USA
78 Posts

Response Posted - 09/04/2015 : 20:19:41

I used to ramp launch my fin keel cat25. I had a 8 pad custom built trailer and a 15' extension and did a substantial amount of work on the trailer to help make it easier to get back on the trailer. Needless to say getting it off the trailer was a breeze however the ramp has to be so steep it was a horrible experience ever time we put it back on the trailer. My boat was kept in a spot where I could leave the mast up.
I can't tell you how many times we would get to the dock to get it ready to put on the trailer and wish we could just lock her up and go home. It was not unusual for it to take over an hour to get it back on the trailer without having to mess with the mast..
I have moved my boat to a slip in a marina and sold my trailer. From my experience I think there are better suited sailboats to trailer than a fin keel cat25.

David B.
'84 C25 TR/FK #4301 "Synchronicity"
'70 18' Interlake
'78 14' Dolphin Sr
Lubbock, TX

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 09/04/2015 : 20:42:53

Scott Islander graciously lent me his 2x4 A-frame and he and I lowered the mast using it and my mainsheet. It went well once we finagled the furler. A few weeks later after I made my repairs I asked a fellow boater in the yard to help me raise it again. The two of us had no trouble raising it and getting it secured in place.
Then a week later I went to raise the jib and found I had not smoothed down all the pop rivets in my furler foil so the jib would not go all the way up. This time around the boat was not longer on the hard so I had to lower the mast, fix the rivets, then raise the mast up solo on a gusty day. The mast was easy to control with the mainsheet and I had no trouble doing the job with the A-frame.
I will advise on one thing you have to be extremely careful with: as you raise the mast the shrouds can get twisted and kinked at the shackles and turnbuckles. Whatever you do, do not allow these joints to kink or you risk compromising the entire rig - its best to have a helper keep these straight while you're raising the mast.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 09/05/2015 : 12:18:09

Hello again everyone,

Thanks once again for all of your opinions. I will be sure to watch for possible shroud kinks or entanglements. I will most likely be launching by hoist most times at first. But I believe I will be looking for a slip in the long run. At that point, I will need to decide weather or not to cell the trailer.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 09/06/2015 : 07:41:20

The reason I looked for Passage in the first place is my wife and I were sick & tired of raising and lowering the mast every time we sailed. It killed an hour of sailing time on both ends of our trip.
It was a 16' dinghy with a 20' mast that weighs about 30# rather than an 80# piece of superstructure! I could raise it easily. And trailering allowed sailing in a variety of locations.
I'd check all my mooring options in my area:
- A fixed dock that I could walk out to from the parking lot.
- A floating dock where you dinghy out but have a stable platform on which to step up and put your groceries on. This is my option.
- A ball mooring - this is a trick really IMHO. (1) Getting off the dink and into the boat is a "comedy of errors" and you'll see some cool you tubes about it, and (2) grabbing the pennant, connecting your bowline to it and preventing "sailing at anchor".
I did that for two weeks once - that convinced me
Good luck whatever you decide

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

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