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Anchor and line

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jaydon
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USA
156 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/25/2015 : 04:36:59

Morning,
Just got the boat launched and down to her berth. A cold 3 hour motor down Narragansett Bay.
I have an anchor question that I have not seen addressed before.
I need new anchor line and maybe chain. Looking at the anchor locker on my boat, it is fairly shallow. I'd like to use 1/2" line and at least 15' of 1/4" chain. Plus the anchor.
I'm concerned about the space in the well. Can anyone give me advice on the length of line that will fit?
I'd like to get 150'; but not sure that it will fit in the locker.
Anchoring spots in the bay are mostly less than 30'.
I am not planning any long cruises this summer. Plan to get used to the boat.
How about 3/8" double braid?
I just don't want to buy something and find out it won't fit.
Thanks
Jay

Jay
South County RI
Cat 25 SR/FK/Trad
#5645
Wind Dancer

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 05/25/2015 : 04:52:13

The West Advisor recommends 3/8" line for a 25' boat in winds up to 30 mph. If you might anchor in stronger winds, a 7/16" line would work. My C25 friends and I used a 3/8" line for many years and it was sufficient. We were once anchored in winds reportedly 60 kts, and the line held. IMO, 1/2" would be too big.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 05/25/2015 : 06:18:32

Stay with the 3/8 Twisted Nylon Anchor Line, Double braid doesn't stretch and in an anchor line you want some stretch to absorb any shock on the line like a shock absorber. You would also have a hard time cleating 1/2 line to the cleats on the C25, They are made for 3/8 line. 3/8 twisted line has a tensile strength of around 5500lbs, More than enough.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

jaydon
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156 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2015 : 08:12:26

Hey, thanks to both of you.
Do you think there would be room for 150'. Plus the anchor and chain.
I could probably get away with 100' and 15' of chain, though.
I think 3/16" chain should be good.
Again, thanks
Jay

Jay
South County RI
Cat 25 SR/FK/Trad
#5645
Wind Dancer

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9014 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2015 : 09:02:25

That depends on the anchor. I had something like 150' of twisted nylon (may have been 1/2") with 25' of chain and a Danforth anchor (not sure of the size--it was our "lunch hook") in there with no problem. I had a separate 14# Delta anchor and similar rode in a bag under a dinette seat, for overnight purposes.

I agree on the rope--twisted nylon gives you shock absorbency that helps prevent yanking the anchor loose and is more comfortable.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5851 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2015 : 09:26:21

quote:
Originally posted by jaydon

I think 3/16" chain should be good.

West Advisor is a reliable source for information of this type, and they recommend 3/16" Proof Coil chain.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9014 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2015 : 09:35:01

...except I see no reason not to go with 1/4" for the additional weight, which is part of what chain is about. And get hot-dipped galvanized--not the "plated" stuff at the hardware store.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

jaydon
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156 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2015 : 11:09:46

Dave,
So, how does your rode and chain all fit in the locker. I was very surprised at how shallow it is.
Maybe one of those hangers for the anchor that goes on the pulpit?
Narragansett Bay is really pretty shallow over most of it's expanse. Maybe 20' average. Not like LI Sound which can be 60-80' in a lot of places.
And this is our first year and don't plan on overnights. Maybe next year and then have to upgrade.
Thanks for all the input, guys
Jay

Jay
South County RI
Cat 25 SR/FK/Trad
#5645
Wind Dancer

Voyager
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5232 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2015 : 11:12:51

The "lunch hook" held Passage in 20 ft of water in a 15-20 kt breeze dead-on the bow between two islands in Connecticut's Thimble Islands one long October night. I dropped anchor at ~6:00pm when the breeze was ninety degrees over at 4-6 kts. Sometime about 10:00pm the wind switched to SW straight up between the islands and the waves started to build through the night until we were rockin' and rollin' around 3:00AM. It was not a pleasant night by any stretch.
I had set the GPS' anchor drag monitor and it did not go off thankfully, so the anchor held solid.
And it's a good thing it did not drag - the Thimble Islands are made of a kind of pink granite - the hardest rock known in abundance in these parts - which the "Brownstones" buildings of New York's lower Manhattan are made of.
Even a Catalina '80s vintage hull could not withstand bumping and grinding on that granite for long. Sunk my buddies boat, but that's another story...

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Voyager
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Response Posted - 05/25/2015 : 11:18:28

.... adding to the above since I bought Passage in 2006, the Danforth anchor, 150' of line and chain all fit nicely in the anchor locker. I coil the rode in a figure 8 to eliminate any kinks, then lay the anchor on top with the flukes pointed toward the bow. Fits nicely in there and the anchor keeps the rode under control.

Regarding depths in LI Sound, I rarely anchor in water in excess of 12 ft, since most of the bays and protected areas are silted in. The tidal range in Eastern LI Sound is about 3-4ft while in Western LI Sound, the range is ~ 7 ft. A 10 ft anchorage at low can become 17 ft at high.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Edited by - Voyager on 05/25/2015 11:22:33

jaydon
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Response Posted - 05/25/2015 : 11:47:39

Hi all,
Decided on 150' of twisted 3/8". Got to get the chain now. Probably 10+ feet.
Jay

Jay
South County RI
Cat 25 SR/FK/Trad
#5645
Wind Dancer

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9014 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2015 : 14:49:25

If you're not anchoring overnight, 10-15' of chain will help. But if you are, the rule of thumb is chain at least the length of your boat. The chain significantly improves holding power by keeping the pull angle low, and it protects against abrasion from the bottom. Robust ground tackle is critical to a good night's sleep!

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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3993 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2015 : 15:24:15

Although more chain is better remember that you are the one that will have to haul all that weight up. Try and find a happy medium. I seriously doubt I could haul 25ft of chain plus a 15-22 pound anchor that is buried in the sea floor.

I also have a Danforth anchor and I put some black rubber hose pushed onto the ends of the rods to protect the hull. Seems the anchor would always swing into it. Like Bruce I'm in LI Sound and would never anchor in 60ft of water, I'd have a heart attack pulling all that back in. Most if not all of the gunk holes are 10-15ft.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 05/25/2015 15:53:35

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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Response Posted - 05/25/2015 : 15:33:57

Keep in mind that there are a number of rules of thumb and they are just that, not experimental results. One book on anchoring that I read reported that a 30' sailboat stretched all of the catenary out of an appropriately sized all chain rode at 7:1 in 35kts in testing. Use the amount that makes you comfortable, but use some. I only have 10-12', mostly enough to keep the line mostly off the bottom to limit abrasion, and have yet to drag. I likely will sometime, but scope and the anchor are more important in my mind.

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9014 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2015 : 15:42:53

One other suggestion: Put a U-bolt on a wall of the anchor locker, and then tie off the bitter end of the rode to it. That's not meant to hold the boat at anchor--just to prevent an "OOPS".

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

jaydon
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156 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2015 : 15:56:21

Hi again
For this year, the 15' and 10' chain will work.
I do have the 22lb Lewmar with 5' of chain and 5/8" rode.
I think that one will hold in anything I will venture out in.
For now, though, it's home.
Jay
Thanks again for the help.

Jay
South County RI
Cat 25 SR/FK/Trad
#5645
Wind Dancer

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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3993 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2015 : 15:58:13

quote:
Put a U-bolt on a wall of the anchor locker

Dave , did you do that? I've thought about doing it but the fiberglass is very thin inside the locker. Even with a backing plate I thought it would just rip out or crack the locker if pulled on.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 05/25/2015 : 16:07:41

quote:
I do have the 22lb Lewmar

Whoa, I don't know how well that will fit, If at all.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Voyager
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Response Posted - 05/25/2015 : 17:32:32

quote:
Originally posted by islander

quote:
Put a U-bolt on a wall of the anchor locker

Dave , did you do that? I've thought about doing it but the fiberglass is very thin inside the locker. Even with a backing plate I thought it would just rip out or crack the locker if pulled on.

Scott
The U bolt is small and as you point out, has little strength. But what it does prevent is the bitter end of the anchor rode going "whoops over the side" into the drink. It gives you just enough time to catch the rode and anchor before it goes down to "Davey Jones' locker" in the blink of an eye...

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Edited by - Voyager on 05/25/2015 17:33:45

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9014 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2015 : 18:29:15

quote:
Originally posted by islander

quote:
Put a U-bolt on a wall of the anchor locker

Dave , did you do that? I've thought about doing it but the fiberglass is very thin inside the locker. Even with a backing plate I thought it would just rip out or crack the locker if pulled on.

What Bruce said. (He has the boat now.)

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9014 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2015 : 18:48:10

quote:
Originally posted by jaydon

...I do have the 22lb Lewmar with 5' of chain and 5/8" rode...

I assume that's a Delta, so doubt it'll fit. A Danforth-style should fit and take care of you for short-term purposes. But for serious holding, 5' of chain and 5/8" rope is kinda backward (too big on the rope and not enough on the chain). The rope can be smaller (3/8 to 1/2" twisted nylon) for shock-absorbance, and the chain should be longer for overnight comfort. I, and some others who I consider more knowledgeable, would argue the chain length and weight is at least as important as the anchor size--IMHO, the 14# Delta will generally set and hold better with 25' of chain at 7:1 scope than the 22# Delta with 5' of chain. And those two configurations are just about the same total weight.

Where's "Anchor Sten"??

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 05/25/2015 18:50:38

jaydon
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156 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2015 : 22:35:44

You don't think it will fit? LOL. Just kidding. I found it in the 'dumpster' when I was cleaning the boat out after I bought it in Jan. Along with 4 big contractor bags of junk.
I looked in the locker to see if there was a cleat or something to attach the rode to.
I'll put a piece of starboard in as a backing plate with some 4200.
Jay

Jay
South County RI
Cat 25 SR/FK/Trad
#5645
Wind Dancer

pastmember
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Response Posted - 05/27/2015 : 16:21:40

Rail mounts for anchors are cheap and open up the locker, anchor rollers are another option; anchor does not need to live in the locker.

Frank Hopper

dmpilc
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Response Posted - 05/27/2015 : 17:43:41

I always just tied off the end of the anchor line to the bow pulpit before leaving the dock. Never lost it overboard!

DavidP
1975 C-22 SK #5459 "Shadowfax" Fleet 52
PO of 1984 C-25 SK/TR #4142 "Recess"
Percy Priest Yacht Club, Hamilton Creek Marina, Nashville, TN

pfduffy
Captain

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Response Posted - 06/12/2015 : 08:53:36

I'll testify to the importance of tying off the bitter end. (Hangs head in shame.)

Pat Duffy
1984 SK/SR #4113
Slàinte

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 06/12/2015 : 11:42:45

Just for a chuckle...
The skipper and I once anchored the 50' catamaran in the Gulf of Mexico in 60' of water and 40k winds. We had a 45# Bruce, 35' of chain and 450' of 3/4" rode.
It blew all night and the next morning we stripped the gears on the windlass trying to raise it....

Derek Crawford
Chief Measurer C25-250 2008
Previous owner of "This Side UP"
1981 C-25 TR/FK #2262 Used to have an '89 C22 #9483, "Downsized"
San Antonio, Texas

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